2 stroke lines

[motoxgolf413]

What are two stroke lines? like i hear older riders talk about them and I ride a YZ250 and i ride what ever lines form but I've always been curious whats a 2 stroke line?

[dtha70]

two strokes can cut inside of the common 4 stroke lines when youre coming in from the same point. the way a two stoke plants in a corner makes different lines. if youre riding the common line on your YZ, youre not riding it right, take advantage of that handling and the two strokes ability to get on top of the soft stuff and float. i always get to the track early when im riding my 2 stroke to go cut some prime lines, then i sit back and watch the thumpers blow through them every time!

[hondaracer600]

2 stroke lines are generally wider. They don't have the "stop-and-go" capability of a 4t, so using wider lines and trying to carry more momentum is considered "2-stroke lines"

[tribalbc]

2 stroke lines are generally wider. They don't have the "stop-and-go" capability of a 4t, so using wider lines and trying to carry more momentum is considered "2-stroke lines"

100% a** backwards.

[Dirt Addict]

2 stroke lines are generally wider. They don't have the "stop-and-go" capability of a 4t, so using wider lines and trying to carry more momentum is considered "2-stroke lines"

I primarily ride a 2t and I notice that I can come up on the inside of a 4t, brake later and still turn as tight or tighter than the 4t's. It's coming out of the turn where the 4t often hooks up better, less wheel spin and out accelerates me.

Like said above, the 2t seems to ride over the top of soft chop instead of sinking in to it.

to the OP, I think 2t lines are generally sharper turns. Modern tracks have changed due to the 4t's ability to hook up and accelerate. The distance from turn to jump can be less, causing a 2t rider to look to the outside berm for added distance to accelerate to the next jump. I guess the term ''2t line'' is kinda vague....

[maconbass]

2 stroke lines are generally wider. They don't have the "stop-and-go" capability of a 4t, so using wider lines and trying to carry more momentum is considered "2-stroke lines"

Now I'm really confused. I thought the opposite.

[hondaracer600]

On a motocross track 2 strokes may have more of a capability of MAKING the inside line, but then you are screwed for the following section, due to the loss momentum. The smooth, tractable power of a 4t is ideal for rolling on out of tight, rough corners.

[tribalbc]

2 stroke riding is all about cut and thrust, squaring off corners, inside to outside, outside to inside. 4 strokes are the ones stuck on the steady fast outside lines. With a 2 stroke you hve the choice of any line you want. You may not have the hookup, thats what the clutch is for, but you have the instant acceleration and nimbleness to do as you please.

[maconbass]

2 stroke riding is all about cut and thrust, squaring off corners, inside to outside, outside to inside. 4 strokes are the ones stuck on the steady fast outside lines. With a 2 stroke you hve the choice of any line you want. You may not have the hookup, thats what the clutch is for, but you have the instant acceleration and nimbleness to do as you please.

Now THAT is more of what I have experienced to be true.

[Ronus]

alot of time though, the 2 strokes CANT take that inside line because there is a jump 10-15 foot out of that corner. With a 4 strokes massive torque, you can make the gap, 2t , not so much.

I always see them sweeping wide

[gyd]

2 stroke riding is all about cut and thrust, squaring off corners, inside to outside, outside to inside. 4 strokes are the ones stuck on the steady fast outside lines. With a 2 stroke you hve the choice of any line you want. You may not have the hookup, thats what the clutch is for, but you have the instant acceleration and nimbleness to do as you please.

That won't work with a 125. Watch a top level schoolboy rider on a 125 and it is all about carrying momentum into and through the corners. Watch Zack Bell, Nick Gaines, Dakota Alex etc. they are trying everything to widen every corner to make the track as straight as possible and keep up the momentum. On a 125 you loose momentum and you might as well drop an anchor especially if you are racing against a four stroke.

When my son was in the schoolboy class, local races allways double gated them with some class like 4 stroke, +25, college boy or A class, classes allways on big 4 strokes. To beat them he had to carry more momentum through the corners so passes would stick down the straights. You can't square up a 125 against a fast 450 and hope to out drag him down the straight.

[Kevslatvin]

alot of time though, the 2 strokes CANT take that inside line because there is a jump 10-15 foot out of that corner. With a 4 strokes massive torque, you can make the gap, 2t , not so much.

I always see them sweeping wide

Let me preface this with I have yet to ride a 2t as I'm new to the sport but I've become alittle confused on this lately. It does make sense to me as far as a 125 2t is concerned, but not a 250 2t. From what I have read a 250 2t makes both more HP and torque than a 250f. Does this mean a 250f can clear these jumps and a 250 2t can't even though the 2t makes more power? Is it all in the delivery of the 250 2t being harder to control?

[maconbass]

YZ250F = 20.1 foot pounds of torque and 36 horsepower.

YZ250t = 30.6 foot pounds of torque and 46.4 horepower.

From those numbers, it would make sense that the two stroke of equal displacement to a four stroke could accelerate quicker out of corners. I'm new to the sport as well but, from what I've been noticing, the good two stroke riders seem the turn much sharper and accelerate out like a slingshot while the four stroke riders swing through the turns wider.

[dogfish]

It all depends on the type of turns, terrain, and style of track. Blanket answers on which bike does better on which line is a little silly. If you haven't ridden a 2-stroke, find an oportunity to does so. Thumpers and pingers are 2 different animals all together. A 250 pinger is still a premier class bike and is faster than any 250f "MOST" of the time. Tight woods and mud can make the comparison interesting. Still it all depends on the conditions and rider period.

[cummins1320]

i ride in sand and loam mostly and notice the apex of the turn is different on a 2stroke,

my guess is the 2stroke is off the brakes sooner, at least in the sand

[tye1138]

I've spent a great deal of time riding 125/250 2 strokes and of course many 250 4 strokes.

Its funny how people come out of the woodwork on 2t vs 4t discussions! LOL

Gary will come on here and say there is no difference between a 2 stroke line and a 4 stroke line. He is right, there "shouldn't" be any difference, but in practice, on the tracks of the world, you will find lines that work better for the torque machines of the 250's and don't work well for the 125/150's. The difference is 125/150 vs 250 not 2 stroke vs 4 stroke.

A lot of tracks have extreme inside lines that lead up to a jump face, which require a heavy throttle to manage. These are lines where the 250 4 stroke excels because it has torque at a very low RPM and because it grips the tire every 2nd rotation, it allows the tire to sink in and grip better. The grunt of a 4 stroke is undoubtedly substantially different then that of any 2 stroke. The 2 stroke however grips the tire every single rotation, the torque and power come on at the same time as well, there not much of that grunt seen in the 4 stroke, just sheer rocket-ship power. When you take that same line with a 2 stroke and just pin the throttle or use the clutch to modulate the power exiting the corner to the jump face, you will literally just spin the rear tire. This is a lot better on 250 2 strokes for sure, as the torque is so much greater then even the 250 4 stroke. But for those 125/150 guys, its not much fun to deal with. This is why railing that outside line in these cases can be a wise technique to know and use.

Needless to say, yes there are different lines you would take on a 125/150 vs the 250's for sure. But it is track dependent and I think its rare that you'll find some place with inside lines that close to jump faces.

[dogfish]

I've spent a great deal of time riding 125/250 2 strokes and of course many 250 4 strokes.

Gotta call you out on this one. Didn't you just start riding dirt?

mx for that matter? Not tryin to be mean, Just askin....

[joelberg]

On an open class 2-stroke you can take any damned line you please.

[tye1138]

Gotta call you out on this one. Didn't you just start riding dirt? mx for that matter? Not tryin to be mean, Just askin....?

Ohh I'm still fairly new to motocross, what... year and a half? I did take a huge break due to injury in 2010. But when I ride, I'm putting 20 hours a month on my bike, so I do ride a considerable amount.

The only reason why I have any experience riding other bikes is the fact, I got very upset about how I was riding my bike and to reduce my frustration, I forced myself to ride other bikes. I've ridden a wide variety of 250F's from the japanese brands and of course KTM. I've also ridden many Japanese 125 and of course 250's 2 strokes. From my on track experience, 4 strokes do excel in a few areas particularly getting out of a corner. We can argue about semantics until we're blue in the face, but the truth of the matter is what I posted, its just straight forward logic, 125's don't do very well in torque specific situations like squirting out of a rut and up a jump face in one move. Mind you, the solution I found was the 250 2 stroke... which of course is gonna be my next bike!

Ohh and yes, on a 250 2 stroke, you can pretty much take any dam line you want... sorry if I mixed that up in my earlier posting.

Edited October 1, 2011 by tye1138

[downonmonday]

Ohh I'm still fairly new to motocross, what... year and a half? I did take a huge break due to injury in 2010. But when I ride, I'm putting 20 hours a month on my bike, so I do ride a considerable amount.

The only reason why I have any experience riding other bikes is the fact, I got very upset about how I was riding my bike and to reduce my frustration, I forced myself to ride other bikes. I've ridden a wide variety of 250F's from the japanese brands and of course KTM. I've also ridden many Japanese 125 and of course 250's 2 strokes. From my on track experience, 4 strokes do excel in a few areas particularly getting out of a corner. We can argue about semantics until we're blue in the face, but the truth of the matter is what I posted, its just straight forward logic, 125's don't do very well in torque specific situations like squirting out of a rut and up a jump face in one move. Mind you, the solution I found was the 250 2 stroke... which of course is gonna be my next bike! ?

Ohh and yes, on a 250 2 stroke, you can pretty much take any dam line you want... sorry if I mixed that up in my earlier posting.

1.5 years and laid off by injury...I don't consider that a lot of seat time, sorry.