Crossing Draws

[n16ht5]

I am trying to get better at crossing draws, especially ones that are off camber.

Does anyone have some good videos or pictures showing how you guys are doing them? Llamaface, 2ply??

Thanks

Chris

Here are some example pics.. It's hard to see I know... I ride Washington trails

[7thirtyseven]

Since no one smart is answering I'll give it a whirl...

Got no idea what a "draw" is but from what your pics shows I'm assuming your main concern is the off camber, successful crossings are always a function of momentum and judicious throttle from the riders point of view and suspension and tires from the bikes side. At the very basics you have to be convinced you will make it to the other side of the offcamber this frees you to carry the speed you need. You do not want to be accelerating on any offcamber until you have a good feel for tires/traction in the situation. From the looks of your bike (wr?) you should have no suspension issues for the situation unless you have the rebound cranked up and the tires can't follow the ground. As for tires... That's a minefield I won't get into, suffice it to say some tires sidehill capabilities diminish rapidly, and some seem to hang on no matter how ratty they get.

Just remember I have no idea what a "draw" is so I could be completely talking out of my ass. (not an unusual occurrence)

[motomike111]

When in doubt throttle out.

Sure beats stopping in the middle when neither feet can reach the ground. And falling over becomes imminent.

[zwr250f]

as 7thirtyseven says, I'm not sure what you mean by a "draw", but on any offcamber situation, I personally try to let momentum take me thru the obstacle. clutch and throttle control are essential. Hammer down on the throttle and your rear end will skate right of the side and you will follow, to little and you will find your self without balance and tipped over! Also not good.

Practice riding these, when you come up to the situation, go thru it, stop turn around and run it the other way, do it 5 or 6 times, then continue on about your trail ride.

good luck

[n16ht5]

thanks for the tips. I put on a trial tire and I am going to be riding soon, so I'll practice going back and forth on some of those areas.

as for draws, I mean the parts of off camber sidehills where you cross a little ravine like where a creek runs down through. I tend to struggle coming back up the other side where it is uphill and off camber.

[zwr250f]

momentum, plus you'll love the trials tire, it will crawl right over those wet angled roots.

[Wiz636]

I tend to struggle coming back up the other side where it is uphill and off camber.

Coming up out of a creek like can can be tricky, especially since the rocky creek bottom generally keeps your speed down. Like zwr said, get as much momentum as possible by picking a good line approaching the creek and especially as you approach the other side.

The more momentum you have the less power you will need to use and the less chance of wheelspin.

Try to focus on the big picture of crossing the stream and getting up the other side rather than worrying about the little bumps, rocks, roots that make up the crossing.

[tribalbc]

Coming up out of a creek like can can be tricky, especially since the rocky creek bottom generally keeps your speed down. Like zwr said, get as much momentum as possible by picking a good line approaching the creek and especially as you approach the other side.

The more momentum you have the less power you will need to use and the less chance of wheelspin.

Try to focus on the big picture of crossing the stream and getting up the other side rather than worrying about the little bumps, rocks, roots that make up the crossing.

This and really concentrate on loading all your weight on that downhill peg.

[2PLY]

Difficult to tell what you mean by a "Draw" and the photos aren't much help. It also varies quite a bit if you cross at an angle or perpendicular to the low point. The one thing that will apply in almost all cases (unless you plan to loft the front wheel to prevent stuffing it into the bottom) is to allow the bars to drop away from you while YOU remain over the pegs and NOT leaning into the bars. Turn by leaning the bike, BUT DON'T LEAN WITH IT!!

The transition from down to up is the key place where a light touch on the bars is important.. If you are bracing yourself with the bars, when the front comes up the other side, it comes up quickly. Stiff elbows here will cause the bars to shove your body behind the pegs so quickly, it will leave you hanging on the bars to stay attached and quite often results in you pulling an unexpected wheelie.

One instructor told us that they call the bars "Handle Bars", NOT "Hold-on Bars". They are for handling the bike, not for holding on, though most of us do it anyway.. including me when I forget or the pucker factor goes above my comfort level. ?

[2PLY]

If you are crossing at say a 45 degree angle or even less, as the bike feels like the rear tire wants to slide down and away, don't fight it. It's like a skid correction in a car, turn toward the slide, So in crossing a 'V' shaped gully, you would plan to make a sort of slight "S" turn to prevent the rear tire from getting away from you. Easy to show on paper or demonstrate, but somewhat difficult to convey in writing..

I use the same technique with ruts in the trail.. If it appears I'm going to slip into a rut, (maybe I wasn't paying attention and now the bike is about to slip in) instead of trying to avoid it, I turn toward the rut and unweight the rear tire as it crosses and follow up with a turn in the other direction to straighten up with the trail.. OR, keep turning to cross the rut again. One of my favorite things to do. ? This also helps to repair any rut by softening up the edges.

[2PLY]

One last thing, if the Trials tire is a Radial Ply and you are NOT riding at racing speeds, run the tire as low as you can. The lower the air pressure, the better the sidewall flexes to keep the tread working with the ground.... especially on side hill riding. One side wall will flex while the other extends to keep the tread flat to the surface.

The more pressure you run, the more the tire becomes stiff and round at the contact point so the less it can shape to the terrain. I never use more than 5 PSI but then I'm using Trials Competition tires on a Trials Competition Bike.

[n16ht5]

When can I go riding with you? ? I usually run 7-10psi, less and I bash rims

[J_Daniels]

Trail riders sometimes have a pretty slow pace, they like to soak up the scenery. Leading up to this: if you are a slower rider by choice, get used to the fact that you do need to blast some sections and get used to the 'situational speed' needed to clear obstacles like this. A bit of extra inertia makes little gullies like that a breeze.

2PLY is on the mark when he says to keep your weight off the bars and to steer into the back tire as it churns downhill a bit, make sure to look ahead and to the point you'll be at in a second or 2 rather than down at the rocks or etc. you are trying to avoid. I like to focus on gripping extra hard with my ankles and extra light with my hands on anything like that as well.

[2PLY]

Trail riders sometimes have a pretty slow pace, they like to soak up the scenery. Leading up to this: if you are a slower rider by choice, get used to the fact that you do need to blast some sections and get used to the 'situational speed' needed to clear obstacles like this. A bit of extra inertia makes little gullies like that a breeze.

2PLY is on the mark when he says to keep your weight off the bars and to steer into the back tire as it churns downhill a bit, make sure to look ahead and to the point you'll be at in a second or 2 rather than down at the rocks or etc. you are trying to avoid. I like to focus on gripping extra hard with my ankles and extra light with my hands on anything like that as well.

I assume you are talking about "Trials Riders" and the slow pace.. ??

Very True! The slow pace requires a little more balance skills but rewards you with the opportunity to look for and ride interesting lines even within the normal width of the single track. I'm constantly monitoring the trail or route for animal or human prints and I make a game out of repairing the trail by avoiding any rut except for doing 'S'-Turns back and forth across any rut.

I ride in whatever gear will keep my revs low so that I have a lot of RPM room for a sudden blast and better "glide" through the tough stuff. I get better fuel economy that way too (longer distance on the same fuel).

I would like to add that along with the light grip on the bars, when I prepare for a difficult section, I have found it just as important to move my feet away from the frame about 1-1/2 inches and DON'T grip the frame with your boots. This improves the ability to make instant course corrections with "feet input" as the bike now has room for about a 5 degree tip to either side without changing the width of your knees. Also, riding with the tip of the foot peg in the middle of your boot allows you to keep the bottom of your outside boot parallel with the ground while the bike leans over for tighter turns. ?

[2PLY]

When can I go riding with you? I usually run 7-10psi, less and I bash rims

Any time... the mountain snows are forcing us down to the lower levels so most of my Winter riding is at a friend's 40 acres where we have made multiple Trials Sections for play and practice.. Usually every Sunday near Hobart, WA.. Trials Bikes only.. ?

[J_Daniels]

I assume you are talking about "Trials Riders" and the slow pace.. ??

Nope TRAIL riders. Where I ride the most (Tillamook State Forest) some guys are navel gazing in 2nd gear all the time. They aren't going fast or slow, just a steady pace that carries them through all the easy stuff. When the trail gets harder, they struggle.

I didn't know the trick with the feet, I wonder is this trials bike only? Hard to keep neutral hands AND feet when you are blasting 280 lbs. through an obstacle. I always thought it was best to connect at the ankles.

[762SPR]

I learned to not grip so much with my feet from 2Ply and others in the trials section when I started riding my trials bike and I use it on my big bikes all the time. It really helps with body stability when you're flying through an uphill section with lots of humps and whoops, a mostly bald rear tire, and low hanging branches you need to dodge with your head!

I constantly hear people saying to grip with feet and knees. Maybe this is more for MX riding? I have found that floating over the bike usually works better than trying to rigidly attach myself to it... I'm just a newbie though so I'm probably wrong!?

[J_Daniels]

Newbie or not, gonna try it!

[2PLY]

..

I didn't know the trick with the feet, I wonder is this trials bike only? Hard to keep neutral hands AND feet when you are blasting 280 lbs. through an obstacle. .....

No, it's not just a Trials bike thing. However, it's something we have to learn in Trials if we want the best tight terrain performance. Take a look at the top finishers in many of the current Extreme Enduro events and you will most likely find former or even current Trials Champions at the top. Taddy, Christian Pfeifer and David Knight are just 3 of them.

There may be times where clamping your knees to the bike for an instant might stabilize a bike that is in danger of flopping out of control but in most cases, it's best to stay somewhat detached and allow the bike to do it's thing under you while your upper body stays over the intended line. Relaxed elbows and knees will allow the bike to tip side to side without pushing you out of balance. With locked elbows or knees, any tip of the bike for turns will push your upper body into the turn as if you were tipping your head into the turn.

There is a lot more to explaining this than this simple example and there are threads in this forum where we did a pretty good job of discussing the most important fundamentals. One of the threads had the words "Whiskey Throttle" in the title.

And NO, 762SPR is NOT wrong.. he's one of the lucky ones that have learned this basic rule early.

[450XJimDirt]

To Clarify for those who dont know what he means , most hunters use this term , that is where i learned it years ago:

DRAW. A draw is a less developed course of a stream in which

there is essentially no level ground and, therefore, little or no maneuvering

room within its confines. The ground slopes upward on

each side and toward the head of the draw. Draws occur frequently

along the sides of ridges at right angles to the valleys between them.

Contours indicating a draw are V-shaped, with the point of the V toward

the head of the draw

So in other words , when you look at a mountain side and you see those large grooves going from somewhere near the top to the bottom all over the entire mountain range , it looks like a trench that was dug by a V shaped plow , but usually very large , but can also be only a few feet wide and deep , THAT is a draw !

So when someone says , I saw a elk 3 draws over , they mean look 3 of those over and you will see a elk around the 3rd one ! ....then you shoot it !