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Anyone try the new Rotella 10-30 semi synthetic?

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Not trying to start another oil thread " war ". But this looks like a good contender. Have been using the full synthetic 5w40, but since Honda recommends 10w30 weight oil, and the price is right between standard Rotella ( 15w40 ) and what I have been using. I been thinking about giving it a try.

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Not trying to start another oil thread " war ". But this looks like a good contender. Have been using the full synthetic 5w40, but since Honda recommends 10w30 weight oil, and the price is right between standard Rotella ( 15w40 ) and what I have been using. I been thinking about giving it a try.

I won`t go lower in viscosiy than 10w40 in cooler weather and 20w50 in summer,,YMMV..

B

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I won`t go lower in viscosiy than 10w40 in cooler weather and 20w50 in summer,,YMMV..

B

Hey B come over here in the winter -20 and you'll be using 0w30 oil for ice racing season.👍 that piggy won't even roll over with 10/40 in her.:ride:

If Honda recommends it I don't see a problemo using it.......

Actualy thicker oil is hard on your motor on cold start up's , that's where most of the wear comes from.

The 5/40 is a good compromise.

Pop's

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Thanks for the reply's guys! Yea I know 10w30 seems a bit light for these RFVC mills. But in my owners manual, it does in fact state 10w30 as the recommended weight up to around 60 degrees. Beyond that it's 10-40.

So I am thinking this should be fine for winter use. I have rejetted with Dave's mods anyway, and have noticed it running MUCH cooler, not to mention the overall improvement in smoothness and response. I think I'll give it a try!

Thanks, James

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Hey B come over here in the winter -20 and you'll be using 0w30 oil for ice racing season.:worthy: that piggy won't even roll over with 10/40 in her.🤣

If Honda recommends it I don't see a problemo using it.......

Actualy thicker oil is hard on your motor on cold start up's , that's where most of the wear comes from.

The 5/40 is a good compromise.

Pop's

Hey pop`s.did you notice i wrote "cooler weather"............not "icicles hanging off your nose weather"........:worthy::bonk::worthy:

:worthy:

You crazy buggers wanna freeze your nips off......go right ahead..:worthy:...if it goes below 6 or 7 celcuis i am too much of a baby too ride...that`s why i do not use thinner than 10/w40..👍:thumbsup:

But yes if you are going to treat your piggy like a snowmobile ,,then by all means use 5w or 0w ..:worthy::ride::worthy::moon::worthy:

:worthy:

:worthy:

:worthy:

B

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Hey B come over here in the winter -20 and you'll be using 0w30 oil for ice racing season.:worthy: that piggy won't even roll over with 10/40 in her.:worthy:

If Honda recommends it I don't see a problemo using it.......

Actualy thicker oil is hard on your motor on cold start up's , that's where most of the wear comes from.

The 5/40 is a good compromise.

Pop's

I won't run any oil that isn't rated for wet clutches or for high sheer load and extreme pressure. I want JASO MA/MA2 rated oil.

I ran Amsoil 10W-40 Advanced Synthetic Motorcycle Oil in my last XR600R from late fall to spring and 20W-50 from spring to fall. After 10K miles I could still see the cross hash from honing. It stays in the shop when not ridden so it. My shop stays above freezing. It my be ridden in -10 degrees many times but it got warmed up before it left the shop.

Snow is fun to ride in :worthy:

My buddy I sold it to has put 22k on it since and it still uses no oil and has 200+ psi of compression. The cams look great and it has only need 3 valve adjustments since it was rebuilt.

I will be using it in both of my XR's after they get big bored and rebuilt. :ride:

Here is a link about it.

Amsoil 10W-40 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil

I would rather spend my money protecting engine with good oil then save a couple bucks. :worthy:

👍

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Alot of goldwing guys use 10w30 rotella with no bad affects. It doesnt have any friction modifiers so it is fine with a wet clutch. But I would only use it in cold weather. I run it in my 09 silerado. The rest of my bikes get rotella 5w40 or 15w40. If it is cold enuff for 30 weight oil Im duck hunting not riding motorcycles. If I had a ski on the front and a track for the back I would ride in the winter, but living in Tn. we dont get much snow and when we do it is usually followed by several really warm days and it just melts and makes a dang muddy sloopy mess. Rotella 10w30 will be as good as any 10w30 oil for your bike and it has more of the good stuff than jaso ma2 does now. Jaso ma2 oils have less zink and phosphorous than jaso ma oil due to alot newer bikes having a cat converter. Big Red Pigs dont have cats so jaso ma or diesel oil is better than the new motorcycle designated oil.

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Thanks Beaver, that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. I was aware of the no friction modifiers for wet clutch use. With the main concern on the API lable as not stating " energy conserving ".

I also noted that Rotella is now rated with meeting JASO standards! ( as per the label ) This must be fairly recent, as I don't remember seeing this in the past. I am also very particular about oil change frequency, as I always change my oil at no more than 600 miles between changes. I know that's a bit anal, but it's cheap insurance.

Edited by maintenance nazi
Info

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Alot of goldwing guys use 10w30 rotella with no bad affects. It doesnt have any friction modifiers so it is fine with a wet clutch. But I would only use it in cold weather. I run it in my 09 silerado. The rest of my bikes get rotella 5w40 or 15w40. If it is cold enuff for 30 weight oil Im duck hunting not riding motorcycles. If I had a ski on the front and a track for the back I would ride in the winter, but living in Tn. we dont get much snow and when we do it is usually followed by several really warm days and it just melts and makes a dang muddy sloopy mess. Rotella 10w30 will be as good as any 10w30 oil for your bike and it has more of the good stuff than jaso ma2 does now. Jaso ma2 oils have less zink and phosphorous than jaso ma oil due to alot newer bikes having a cat converter. Big Red Pigs dont have cats so jaso ma or diesel oil is better than the new motorcycle designated oil.
Thanks Beaver, that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. I was aware of the no friction modifiers for wet clutch use. With the main concern on the API lable as not stating " energy conserving ".

I also noted that Rotella is now rated with meeting JASO standards! ( as per the label ) This must be fairly recent, as I don't remember seeing this in the past. I am also very particular about oil change frequency, as I always change my oil at no more than 600 miles between changes. I know that's a bit anal, but it's cheap insurance.

I take it you don't know what JASO stands for??? Japanese Automotive Standards Organization :worthy:

For 4-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO T904 standard is used, and is particularly relevant to motorcycle engines.

The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are designed to distinguish oils that are approved for wet clutch use,

and the JASO T904-MB standard is not suitable for wet clutch use.

JASO effectively added the JASO-MA2 & JASO-MA1 specifications by splitting the existing JASO-MA spec into two groups by friction-performance (MA1 is the lower friction oils; MA2 the higher friction oils suitable for bikes).

These standards, especially JASO-MA, JASO-MA1, JASO-MA2 and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories.

Read this :worthy:

Shell Rotella T5 10w-30 Oil

It only meets the most recent Japanese OEM Diesel performance requirements and specifications for low emission engines of JASO DH-2. :worthy:

Oils rated at JASO-DH2 is the one with less zinc and phosphorous. :worthy:

The JASO-MA (no suffix number) still remains in effect as well. API SF/SG + JASO-MA rated oils will remain the oils of choice until they are no longer available.

Note that JASO-MA2 can now be API SJ formulated, but API SL & API SM formulations still directly contradict JASO-MA/MA1/MA2 standards because of the use of friction modifiers that are not wet-clutch compatible.

I only run oil that is rated for wet clutches, high sheer load, air cooled engines and extreme pressure loads. Call me picky, but Amsoil 10W-40 Advanced Synthetic Motorcycle Oil fits the bill. 👍

:ride:

Edited by TNTsXLR

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I think I'll stir the pot a little, I haven't been in a good oil debate for a while...👍

The Great Oil Debate

There's a lot of myths about oils that are or not suitable for our machines, and most of them have absolutely no factual basis.

"Don't use an energy Conserving oil or your clutch will slip."

"You must use a JASO MA rated oil in your engine or you'll cause premature failure and wear."

The myth about automotive oils making your clutch slip started when the Energy Conserving (EC) standard came into being. EC oils have much lower levels of zinc and phosphorous, because these additives can damage a catalytic converter. And the word moly automatically makes people think that the moly additive will cause buildup on the plates which will lead to slippage. But the truth is there is nothing wrong with oils that contain moly, and in fact many motorcycle-specific oils contain moly. I have yet to see any evidence to show that any so-called "friction-modified" (Energy Conserving, or EC) oil will cause any problems. In fact, all engine oils have friction modifiers of some sort in them. The Energy Conserving designation (EC) was devised to denote oils that met new emissions standards requiring lower levels of phosphorous. The EC standard is about emissions, not friction.

Since the standard requires a reduction in useful additives such as phosphorous and zinc, the manufacturers had to come up with replacements. One of the additives that the oil engineers can use to bring the lubrication properties back to the level that it was with the higher levels of phosphorus is molybdenum (moly).

The problem with the belief that the moly additive will make clutches slip is that oil companies don't use the form of moly that would cause this problem, Molybdenum Disulfide MoS2. That type of moly is typically used for the formulation of industrial gear lubes, chain lubes, and greases, not engine or transmission oils.

Engine oil formulators use Molybdenum DialkyldiThioCarbamate. This formulation of moly has been proven in both lab testing and actual use to not cause clutch problems at any level you are ever going to find in an oil bottle.

The funny thing is, many people will start beating the "moto-specific-oil" drum, and try to tell you that if you don't use motorcycle oil, your clutch will slip. But in fact, many JASO MA rated (certified for use in a wet-clutch environment) moto-specific oils contain levels of moly that are much higher than any EC-rated automotive oil. So if it's bad in an automotive oil, why then is it perfectly acceptable in a motorcycle oil?

Even the JASO MA rating is itself a scam in my opinion. All it means is that an oil has been submitted for certification as to it's ability to operate in a wet clutch environment. That does not, however, mean that a non- JASO MA oil will not perform equally well in the same wet-clutch environment. Many oils are simply not submitted for this certification, beca7use the manufacturers are not specifically targeting the motorcycle market, so they do not wish to invest the time and money required to obtain that certification. And in fact, there are more than a few motorcycle specific oils on the market that do not have the JASO MA certification.

Most any oil will be acceptable in your tranny, as long as it is changed at reasonable intervals. The problem is, what would be considered a reasonable interval for any other engine is not a reasonable interval for our bikes. The real enemy of oil in our trannies is in contamination from the clutch, and viscosity-shear from the gear teeth. The only solution for those problems is frequent oil changes. In most cases, choosing an oil that your budget allows you to change frequently is better than choosing a much more expensive oil that you aren't willing to change as often because of the high cost.

So called "diesel" oils are nothing more than automotive oils with a more robust additive package, especially higher detergent levels. Some of the best performing oils that you can find for our trannies are diesel oils such as Delo and Rotella T. And some of those high-dollar "boutique" moto-specific oils will shear out of viscosity faster than a standard off-the-shelf auto oil. Most oils will shear out of viscosity in our transmissions, under race conditions, in as little as 4 hours. If that doesn't convince you of the need for frequent changes, then nothing will.

I Use ATF type F in my two-stroke trannies. It's an excellent choice for a wet clutch environment, it has better thermal stability and shear resistance than most engine oils. It's also very cheap at $1.29 a quart, so I change it after every ride. You can also use gear oil, or any good engine oil. How often you change it is more important than what you put in it.

I use the ATF in my KX250. For my YZ250F, I use Shell Rotella 10W40. I change it every 3-4 hours.

Of course, there will always be the nay-sayers that will swear that you are leading your machine to an early death if you don't run those so-called "moto-specific" JASO MA oils, or that you are going to do damage to your clutch. And that's just such a crock. There are many motorcycle oils that do not have the JASO MA rating, as well as many automotive oils that meet or exceed the same standards but simply haven't been submitted for certification because they aren't targeted at the motorcycle market. But, since so many dealers (that make a huge profit on oil sales) try to convince riders that they are doing their machines a disservice by not using these products, and the myth is perpetuated on sites such as this, the debate goes on and on...and it will probably never be resolved. But if running that high-dollar moto-specific oil makes you feel better, then by all means, use it, there's something to be said for the feel-good factor, after all.

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Well it looks like I succeeded in doing what I wanted to avoid, never been a fan of forum drama. :ride: Thanks Chokey for your input here. I pretty much came to the same conclusion about oils myself, you were just able to say it better than I could! 👍

I know there will always be people who love to beat the JASO-MA/motorcycle grade oil thing to death, and that's ok too. I just think at some point ( price point ) it starts to become snake oil. My 2 pennies..:worthy:

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I sure won't run new low emission engines oils rated at JASO-DH2 with less zinc and phosphorous designed for a low emission HD diesel engine just to save money on oil. :worthy:

I buy oil that protects my engine and is designed for it. I could care less about debating this, I have researched my oil and it does what it is designed for. 32,000 miles on an XR without doing anything but oil changes and a few valve adjustments works for me. :ride:

👍

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Hey pop`s.did you notice i wrote "cooler weather"............not "icicles hanging off your nose weather"........:worthy::bonk::worthy:

:worthy:

You crazy buggers wanna freeze your nips off......go right ahead..:worthy:...if it goes below 6 or 7 celcuis i am too much of a baby too ride...that`s why i do not use thinner than 10/w40..👍:thumbsup:

But yes if you are going to treat your piggy like a snowmobile ,,then by all means use 5w or 0w ..:worthy::ride::worthy::moon::worthy:

:worthy:

:worthy:

:worthy:

B

:worthy:.....

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Well, I was thinking about trying something cheaper, but y'all have convinced me not to. I'm running Castrol full synthetic 10W-40, it has 44 hours on it, much of that at over 95 degrees F ambient temperature and 65 miles an hour, it has just the slightest bit of color, and right at 2000 miles it tested fine across the board. Bike isn't using but about 3 ounces every 500 miles based on the very unscientific way of measuring the level, and the clutch is a hair smoother than it was when I got it with conventional oil in it. I have to wade thru too much technical jargon at work to want to fool with it for the bike. Since BP is paying for it indirectly anyway, I guess I'll live even at $10 a quart. Right now I'm thinking I am good for at least 2500 miles per.

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..... it has just the slightest bit of color, and right at 2000 miles it tested fine across the board.

.... Right now I'm thinking I am good for at least 2500 miles per.

As I understand, significant transmission "shearing" occurs well before 2500 miles, so I've been changing my oil just shy of 1K. When you say "it tested fine across the board", are you testing for breakdown (shearing) of the polymer strands ?

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As I understand, significant transmission "shearing" occurs well before 2500 miles, so I've been changing my oil just shy of 1K. When you say "it tested fine across the board", are you testing for breakdown (shearing) of the polymer strands ?

I used to belong to the Association Of Lubrication Engineers, but no more. I have no desire to plunge in to the centistokes and poises world again. My understanding talking to the current tech whizzes, is that the good synthetics do not have to depend on polymer additives for viscosity holding ability at higher temps because they have the cold flow characteristics at the low end even with the weight needed at the hot end, as long as the viscosity range isn't too wide. Those polymers are what get sheared in the transmission gears, and that's why all the hot shoes run synthetics. Or they may run a straight grade, not a multi, so again no polymers to cover both ends of the spectrum are needed. And they said oils used in race engines actually have a much easier life than that in multi use street engines - except for nitromethane burning engines. So the guys that use Oil A versus Oil B in the ads just says that it is an ad for Oil A. Winning says a lot more about everything else than it does about the oil - but hey it sells.

Anyway, I had far less than 2% viscosity change, and ash and all metals in single digit parts per million. No water or glycol contamination - small surprise - and no fuel contamination. A small amount of fuel will likely vaporize anyway, but there were only trace tell tale markers left behind either. They said they wouldn't begin to think about changing it until the mileage is 3 times what it is now, but I ain't that brave. I like the "put in gas, push button, and go" method, with occasional chain oiling and other small stuff. This is the first personal use of a full synthetic, although I have used hundreds of gallons of nothing else at work for years, and I am still amazed at how good it just plain looks after 2000 miles. I have never seen oil in a clean auto engine look close to this good after 100 miles.

I sorta work for Castrol (BP), and their numbers (viscosity change over temp, ash, zinc, etc) are at least as good or better than most of the other synthetics, from the data I have seen, but they weren't an order of magnitude better, so I suspect the performance of the others wouldn't be an order of magnitude different either (I didn't say that if asked). I have been running Royal Purple in my 1966 GTO (one owner - me) for the last several years, and the test results after 3000 miles were only a hair worse, and it sits a lot, but it wasn't nearly as pretty. 👍

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I was watching "Moto: Inside the Outdoors" tonight and laughed out loud when this scene popped up on the screen. From the KTM, USA workshop:

2011-10-11211632.jpg

:lol:A big ole jug of our favorite sitting on the bench!

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...... as long as the viscosity range isn't too wide.......

Hey, thanks for the informative,detailed response,Virginian.👍 I'm wondering how this applies to the oil I've been using, Rotella Syn 5-40. I assume this is a significantly larger spread than the 10-30 mentioned in the OP. Is it still major overkill for me to be changing at 1K ?

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