To run ethanol or not to run ethanol fuels?

[CRF450ish]

My dad is real big into non-ethanol fuels. He WILL NOT run anything but non ethanol fuels in any of his vehicles, lawnmowers, weedeaters, chainsaws, bikes, quads etc. He told me that if you run ethanol in 2 strokes, in particular, that they get gummed up easily. I just thought that since almost every gas station adds ethanol that I didnt have a choice. My dad told me otherwise and that there are ethanol free stations around. The point of this thread is to gather feedback and opinions on running ethanol fuels in 2 smokers. I really am uneducated about it. So please, educate me and us:worthy:?

[MarkBYZ250]

I try to stay away from it as I have heard some nasty rumors about it. Most of the gas stations here have it in their fuel but there are maybe 2 that don't use it in their fuel needless to say those are the stations I get fuel at. I'm curious to hear what people here have to say about it as well.

[performance1]

I was told not to run it in small engines. Had to get my lawnmower fixed and the first thing the mechanic said was to stop using gas that has ethanol in it. Luckily there is a station down the road that sells non ethanol gas.

[CRF450ish]

Here in the website for my state that lists the non-ethanol gas stations. You can pick by state. Lets keep our 2 strokes alive with ORIGINAL fuel! Jeese...*** is the world coming to?

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=WA

[yamahasocal450]

I'm pretty sure ethanol fuel was causing my yz295 to ping and knock at closed throttle, at any rate, I've switched to 50/50 nonethanol pump gas and 108 leaded race gas. It's probably overkill but i'll see how it runs

[KJ790]

Haven't been able to buy pump gas without ethanol around here for over 10 years. I've used it in everything, two stroke, four stroke, bike, car, lawnmower... hasn't really been a problem. I have found that in the last 3 years (and since this is a recent developement this is not an ethanol issue, it must be something else they are doing to the crap gas around here) if I let gas sit in a carburetor for more than 3 months then I will have to clean out the pilot jet, but it hasn't made a huge issue. I had to clean the pilot jet on my lawnmower after letting it sit with gas in the carb for 6 months, and I had a bike that I forgot to drain out for the winter as well, had the same issue. It doesn't leave a gum or anything, just enough film to partially plug up the small jets. I've left it in the carb for 5 weeks before without an issue.

People blame ethanol for everything, most of the issues that people fear from ethanol gas are caused by other ingredients in low quality pump gas, not the ethanol.

[CRF450ish]

Haven't been able to buy pump gas without ethanol around here for over 10 years. I've used it in everything, two stroke, four stroke, bike, car, lawnmower... hasn't really been a problem. I have found that in the last 3 years (and since this is a recent developement this is not an ethanol issue, it must be something else they are doing to the crap gas around here) if I let gas sit in a carburetor for more than 3 months then I will have to clean out the pilot jet, but it hasn't made a huge issue. I had to clean the pilot jet on my lawnmower after letting it sit with gas in the carb for 6 months, and I had a bike that I forgot to drain out for the winter as well, had the same issue. It doesn't leave a gum or anything, just enough film to partially plug up the small jets. I've left it in the carb for 5 weeks before without an issue.

People blame ethanol for everything, most of the issues that people fear from ethanol gas are caused by other ingredients in low quality pump gas, not the ethanol.

If your still in new york:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY

[snookismooshsmoosh]

The biggest problem I see with that ethanol rat piss is usually with chainsaws and weedwackers. It can actually eat through the clear fuel lines inside the gas tank. Obviously with no fuel lines left, the engine won't get any fuel.

[KJ790]

If your still in new york:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY

Yeah, I've seen that before. Closest one on that list is 1.5 hours away from me... not worth the drive to me.

[MarkBYZ250]

I have seen some of my buddies bikes sit with the carb bowl full of ethanol fuel and the gas evaporate off and leave this green film in the bowl it looked gnarly.

[BDubb106]

I'm pretty sure ethanol fuel was causing my yz295 to ping and knock at closed throttle, at any rate, I've switched to 50/50 nonethanol pump gas and 108 leaded race gas. It's probably overkill but i'll see how it runs

I do the same thing... couldnt get my race bike (2008 yz 250) not to ping on straight 93 premium pump, which I cant say whether or not is related to the ethanol or not... I have no clue. The funny thing is that all 4 of my other bikes run really well on the same readily avail. pump fuel which contains ethanol, so race fuel is not needed in any of those which saves me some money on fuel since I only ride my race bike on weekends that races are held.

Non ethanol fuel is virtually non existant in my area so I had my head set up for 50/50 pump/race fuel and it rips now with no signs of detonation. Works for me and keeps my motor safe so Ill run what I have to.

[IDAHOBALLER]

Ethenol is an oxygenator (and oxygenators can help make more power) so it will naturally cause the engine to run slightly leaner than with 100% gas with the same jetting specs (which could cause detonation if the bike was already on the lean side with 100% gas).

IMO the worst part about ethanol is that it attracts water and alcohols (ethanol/methanol) tend to harden rubber over time which can cause issues if the machine doesnt get run very often or if the fuel sits around for a long time. Ethanol/Methanol also burns cooler than regular gas does so that plays a part in the spooge factor. Its all about creating combustion temps high enough to completely vaporize/burn the oil (depends alot on the flash point of the oil as too what that "optimum" combustion temp actually is) and not pass some of it out of the exhaust as a liquid (spooge). Cylinder pressures, head chamber design, port work, piston design, expansion chamber design, ignition timing, and octane levels also play a big role in all of this as well. This is why we build performance engines around the type of fuel that it is going to be ran on when looking for that perfect outcome that also remains reliable and tuneable.

Ethanol is not bad if tuned for it correctly. A bike properly built/tuned for E85 (85% ethanol) will make more power than one built/tuned for E10 (10% ethanol) which will make more power than a bike built/tuned to run on 100% gasoline.

If alchohols were bad for our "high performance" engines then why is it a often used fuel in drag race applications to make more power than "gas" can? Alcohol always requires richer jetting than gas does and blends of the two still must take that into account. The only thing better for power is nitromethene and that is a whole different animal.

I personally run a fuel blend that I mix myself in my YZ and CR that contains leaded oxygenated race fuel, pump fuel (with 10% ethanol), and methanol...And my bikes LOVE it!

Edited October 11, 2011 by IDAHOBALLER

[Dingateer]

around here (Dallas) i've never found an ethanol-free gas station. most places are 12 to 15 %. I usually go to Texaco or Chevron because their gas is only 10% ethanol

[mrjata]

Ethenol is an oxygenator (and oxygenators can help make more power) so it will naturally cause the engine to run slightly leaner than with 100% gas with the same jetting specs (which could cause detonation if the bike was already on the lean side with 100% gas).

IMO the worst part about ethanol is that it attracts water and alcohols (ethanol/methanol) tend to harden rubber over time which can cause issues if the machine doesnt get run very often or if the fuel sits around for a long time. Ethanol/Methanol also burns cooler than regular gas does so that plays a part in the spooge factor. Its all about creating combustion temps high enough to completely vaporize/burn the oil (depends alot on the flash point of the oil as too what that "optimum" combustion temp actually is) and not pass some of it out of the exhaust as a liquid (spooge). Cylinder pressures, head chamber design, port work, piston design, expansion chamber design, ignition timing, and octane levels also play a big role in all of this as well. This is why we build performance engines around the type of fuel that it is going to be ran on when looking for that perfect outcome that also remains reliable and tuneable.

Ethanol is not bad if tuned for it correctly. A bike properly built/tuned for E85 (85% ethanol) will make more power than one built/tuned for E10 (10% ethanol) which will make more power than a bike built/tuned to run on 100% gasoline.

If alchohols were bad for our "high performance" engines then why is it a often used fuel in drag race applications to make more power than "gas" can? Alcohol always requires richer jetting than gas does and blends of the two still must take that into account. The only thing better for power is nitromethene and that is a whole different animal.

I personally run a fuel blend that I mix myself in my YZ and CR that contains leaded oxygenated race fuel, pump fuel (with 10% ethanol), and methanol...And my bikes LOVE it!

You are dead on the money. I owned a racing fuel company for many years and always had to talk to guys about alcohols and their side effects. Alcohol, be it methanol or this ethanol stuff is alright if you understand it and jet for it. You can make more HP from alcohol but you go through a lot more of it. If using straight methanol, plan on double the consumption but the cooling is nice too.

The down side to the alcohol family is it is corrosive if not treated. And, you are right it is hygroscopic and will attract moisture. The problem with straight methanol and the moisture is if left in the carb, motor, fuel pump, injectors, anywhere, it will start to set up and look like sheet rock mud. Very Nasty!!

For the crap gas we can get at the pump, stay with the same co. BP is some of the best gas on the market. Always turn off the gas valve. I let the bike idle dry if I plan to store a while, a month or 2. Will save you a bunch of work.

bottom line...jet right, keep variables to a minimum, read your plugs, ride hard and repeat!!

[ZGILBERT93]

As long as it stays at 10% I will use it. But there have been rumors about going to 15% so I may be looking elsewhere for my fuel.

[CRF450ish]

is there a write up on how to jet your yz250?

[JFielder23]

Everything you need to know is in here: https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=961511

Lots of great info in the FAQ. Between the how to, and the jetting database, you'll have no trouble!

[CRF450ish]

Figured id dig up my old thread here. So I just remembered that I had a full tank of ethanol premium fuel in my bike and it's been sitting for about 7 months. I've been working my tail off no time to ride. I know what I need to do. Get rid of fuel in tank, take carb off and clean it etc. my real question is the little tiny bit of Fuel that sits in the cylinder and bottom end, will the ethanol eat away at anything?