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are fuel injected 2 strokes green stickered?

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Like the title says, are fuel injected 2 strokes green stickered? Just read the review on the ossa fuel injected 2 stroke and got me wondering if that technology makes it to a full size bike if it would be green or red tagged? What about the current 2 strokes? (snomo's and watercraft?)

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Whether a engine is EFI or not has little bearing on the Cal sticker color. It is all emissions. A bike with EFI that is a 2S has a better shot at becoming green stickered. But I doubt it will happen, Too expensive to go through the tests for the return on investment.

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The 2010 RMX450 was fuel injected and it got pulled because it couldn't meet emissions.

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The 2010 RMX450 was fuel injected and it got pulled because it couldn't meet emissions.

It met emissions bone stock, the issue was the Yoshimura Cherry Bomb that was plug and play. CARB viewed it as an OEM product that was too easy for the end consumer to use to make the bike illegal. It would have been interesting to see how it would have worked out if it didn't go down the same time that the economy tanked and bike sales dropped big time. As it was, it was easier for Suzuki to pull the bike. If they knew they were going to sell several thousand RMXs, they might have fought the decision.

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It met emissions bone stock, the issue was the Yoshimura Cherry Bomb that was plug and play. CARB viewed it as an OEM product that was too easy for the end consumer to use to make the bike illegal. It would have been interesting to see how it would have worked out if it didn't go down the same time that the economy tanked and bike sales dropped big time. As it was, it was easier for Suzuki to pull the bike. If they knew they were going to sell several thousand RMXs, they might have fought the decision.

Interesting, yet Yamaha has sold the GYTR WR desmog kit all these years. How do you think they get away with it?

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Interesting, yet Yamaha has sold the GYTR WR desmog kit all these years. How do you think they get away with it?

Because like many 'performance kits' they were sold for closed course competition.

If you do the AIS and a Cali park ranger stops you, he can make you have a very bad day. Been a few posts over the years of this happening.

Also, I have not heard of anyone getting a kit in six or more months, it is possible Yamaha decided it was not worth it to do and let the 'unknown' create AIS removal solutions.

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It met emissions bone stock, the issue was the Yoshimura Cherry Bomb that was plug and play. CARB viewed it as an OEM product that was too easy for the end consumer to use to make the bike illegal. It would have been interesting to see how it would have worked out if it didn't go down the same time that the economy tanked and bike sales dropped big time. As it was, it was easier for Suzuki to pull the bike. If they knew they were going to sell several thousand RMXs, they might have fought the decision.
Interesting, yet Yamaha has sold the GYTR WR desmog kit all these years. How do you think they get away with it?
Because like many 'performance kits' they were sold for closed course competition.

If you do the AIS and a Cali park ranger stops you, he can make you have a very bad day. Been a few posts over the years of this happening.

Also, I have not heard of anyone getting a kit in six or more months, it is possible Yamaha decided it was not worth it to do and let the 'unknown' create AIS removal solutions.

My guess would be because the GYTR kit for the WR requires some actual mechanical work where it would be hard for the end consumer to play dumb. The Cherry Bomb was/is a real simple thing to switch that doesn't require any mechanical knowledge at all.

I still think the big reason for the disappearance of the RMX was the downturn in the economy. Add in the mixed reviews of the bike and Suzuki probably saw that it wasn't gonna be a sale success and the Cherry Bomb/CARB issue gave them an easy out.

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Fuel injection shouldn't affect the emmisions too much, but DI would make them green stickered.

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Fuel injection shouldn't affect the emmisions too much, but DI would make them green stickered.

DI won't have much affect either, without a re-design of the 2t exhaust. Have to use something other than exhaust scavenging.....

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DI would eliminate the need for a traditional 2t pipe as it would not rely on the exhaust scavenging to fill the combustion chamber. However, it all comes down to a bike passing the sniffer test and whether or not the manufacturer feels it is worth it to spend the money to get it legal in CA.

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DI would eliminate the need for a traditional 2t pipe as it would not rely on the exhaust scavenging to fill the combustion chamber. However, it all comes down to a bike passing the sniffer test and whether or not the manufacturer feels it is worth it to spend the money to get it legal in CA.

A switch to DI, assuming no other significant changes, would not eliminate the need for an expansion chamber. You'd still need it to move the air. Even on a standard carb'ed 2-stroke, the expansion chamber is for moving the air, it just so happens the air picks up the fuel from the carb on it's way from the airbox to the combustion chamber. What DI would do is eliminate fuel from going out of the exhaust when not "on the pipe" since the injector wouldn't have to fire until the exhaust port was closed by the piston. This is what make's direct injection so promising. With the fuel injector mounted directly in the cylinder head (like a spark plug) and running under the very high pressures they do (2000PSI and up), you can eliminate the wasted fuel that you get when a 2-stroke is running in all the RPM ranges where pressure waves are pulling intake charge into the exhaust pipe before the piston closes the port.

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DI won't have much affect either, without a re-design of the 2t exhaust. Have to use something other than exhaust scavenging.....

It worked on the snowmobiles, unless if they added something else.

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Do you mean oil injected? I've never heard of a fuel injected 2stroke.

Most, if not all, outboard 2-strokes are now fuel injected. Same goes for snowmobiles with 2-stroke motors. It's been slow to get to dirtbikes, but the Ossa trials bike that just came out has electronic fuel injection (but it's not direct injection despite what the article in Dirt Bike claims).

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Do you mean oil injected? I've never heard of a fuel injected 2stroke.

Got a fuel rail with two injectors on each cylinder of my snowmobile's engine. 👍

Oil pump's on the bottom of the crankcase, a few injectors off those hoses too.

But yes, emissions is the big deal with the green sticker. Certain engine architectures are inherently "cleaner" than others, so they stand a higher chance of passing over others. But as others have said, it comes down to the manufacturers doing it and going through the certification process.

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A switch to DI, assuming no other significant changes, would not eliminate the need for an expansion chamber. You'd still need it to move the air. Even on a standard carb'ed 2-stroke, the expansion chamber is for moving the air, it just so happens the air picks up the fuel from the carb on it's way from the airbox to the combustion chamber. What DI would do is eliminate fuel from going out of the exhaust when not "on the pipe" since the injector wouldn't have to fire until the exhaust port was closed by the piston. This is what make's direct injection so promising. With the fuel injector mounted directly in the cylinder head (like a spark plug) and running under the very high pressures they do (2000PSI and up), you can eliminate the wasted fuel that you get when a 2-stroke is running in all the RPM ranges where pressure waves are pulling intake charge into the exhaust pipe before the piston closes the port.

Yes, you are right, just adding DI to a traditional 2t engine would still need the expansion chamber for exhaust scavenging. It would still be a major improvement over current 2T's, as no fuel would be lost out the pipe, but I was thinking of a different DI system.

That being said, I should have expanded on what I meant in my first post. What I was referring to was an air assisted DI system. The air assisted system would not need an expansion chamber. It clears the expended gases by using forced air (from a pump, supercharger, turbo) to clear the cylinder.

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So how far off is DI in dirt bikes? Every now and then I read of KTM having the technology to do this/are investing in R&D etc, but we've now seen the KTM bikes for the next few years and there is nothing happening in that area, and it doesnt seem Yama are investing anything into their 2t lineup other than BNG...

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The stumbling block for DI is not the tech, it is the cost. A 2S carb costs $100 wholesale (if that much), a DI system at least $500. Then there has to be an advantage economically (sell more bikes, something) to motivate both the manufacturer and the buyer.

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Yes, you are right, just adding DI to a traditional 2t engine would still need the expansion chamber for exhaust scavenging. It would still be a major improvement over current 2T's, as no fuel would be lost out the pipe, but I was thinking of a different DI system.

That being said, I should have expanded on what I meant in my first post. What I was referring to was an air assisted DI system. The air assisted system would not need an expansion chamber. It clears the expended gases by using forced air (from a pump, supercharger, turbo) to clear the cylinder.

The issue there is packaging. That has always been the challenge with dirtbikes (motorcycles in general). Gotta keep the powertrain compact. If that wasn't the case, we'd already see lots of what we're talking about. A turbo or supercharged 2-stroke is an old idea, used for decades in diesel motors, but even those were phased out for emissions. Sealed bottom end with oil like a thumper is possible too, look at marine diesel 2-strokes.

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The stumbling block for DI is not the tech, it is the cost. A 2S carb costs $100 wholesale (if that much), a DI system at least $500. Then there has to be an advantage economically (sell more bikes, something) to motivate both the manufacturer and the buyer.

Yup. Converting a 2-stroke to DI is more like a $1000 dollar proposition with regards to MSRP at your local dealer. Not only are you changing the fuel delivery, you're also going to have to convert to oil injection since the fuel isn't passing through the crankcase allowing the oil to drop out. It's not as simple as swapping out a carb with a throttle body and adding a few basic sensors like it is with a thumper.

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