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Dealers having morals.....opinions?

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First off, I am not making any claims to which bikes/dealers/companies are better then the next, just a discussion to my observation during the process of buying a new bike.

First off, Ive been riding/racing for nearly 25 years. I have ridden almost every bike around, some of them I have owned, others were bikes of friends or family. I have not ridden everything, but combined with research, word of mouth and keeping in tune with the rotating world I have made a few observations about motorcycles in general with dirtbikes being my specialty.

Now, after lots of humming and hoeing (bikes are expensive) I settled on a 2012 KTM 250 XC, the bike provides all the qualitys im looking for hence why I choose it.

My question to other TT'ers is.....

Do you thing dealers/individuals have morals regarding their products? Example. Dealer A trying to sell a bike that is not quite up to par with dealer Bs bike?

Do you wish/want dealers to be more forward with their products regarding potential issues being either negative or positive? Example. We all know KTMs have the potential to run hot, should a dealer announce that? (im not saying every KTM runs hot)

With some brands having better quality then others do you believe your average salesman cares about their product or just their to collect a paycheck and what defining characteristics might have persueded you to buy something that you knew was less then your standard?

Just curious to see what peoples opinions are towards dealers/bikes/companies and if any of those factors have come into play while purchasing a new or even used bike! How was your experience?

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Dealers have to believe in the bike/car/truck they sell. Even if it takes some convincing. The only time you will ever get a 'honest opinion' from one is when they are selling them faster than they can get them and their product is better than the competitions even when their product has flaws (they all do).

Some dealers/sales people are bald faced liars. Some honestly believe in their products. Most fall somewhere between the two.

A sale puts food on the table, singles in the hand.

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I fiNd that most dealers are clueless more than anything else... My own research and desires lead to my purchases.

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Do you thing dealers/individuals have morals regarding their products? Example. Dealer A trying to sell a bike that is not quite up to par with dealer Bs bike?

No, dealers are in the buisness to sell bikes. Regardless of what brand they are pushing they will push what they have on the showroom floor.

Do you wish/want dealers to be more forward with their products regarding potential issues being either negative or positive? Example. We all know KTMs have the potential to run hot, should a dealer announce that? (im not saying every KTM runs hot)

Of course! But thats asking for them to actually know about there product when probably 90% of the people on earth would only know where the gas goes. But you occasionaly run into a salesman that knows there product and when mentioning the fact that the KTM might run hot to a prospective sale would loose it.

With some brands having better quality then others do you believe your average salesman cares about their product or just their to collect a paycheck and what defining characteristics might have persueded you to buy something that you knew was less then your standard?

They are there to collect a paycheck most of the time. However you do run into the occasional "young" salesman that is maybe at there first or second job that is totaly into the product and once you get them going will spill the beans on any particular bike down to the coating they use on the valves and how it is either crap or better then running stainless valves.

Just curious to see what peoples opinions are towards dealers/bikes/companies and if any of those factors have come into play while purchasing a new or even used bike! How was your experience?

Being that we have whats called the internet now. I pretty much know my details before purchasing and the sales man is the person I test to see if he may know anything else or have anymore information to add. Plus I like to mess with them when I know they dont know there stuff. Like asking a sales guy about the bad pressure switches in my honda's pilots transmission and what they are doing about them to fix them.

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I fiNd that most dealers are clueless more than anything else... My own research and desires lead to my purchases.

Very true, salesmen are clueless. Spring of 2008 I was in the market for a dual sport bike. I checked 3 or 4 brands, settled on Suzuki. Then checked with 3 or 4 dealers. I knew very little about the DR400 and asked about it as compared to their MX bike. I was concerned about valve maintenance. No one knew. I asked if it was a wet sump or dry sump. No one knew. I ended up buying the DR650. Good, old school air cooled that even a moron like me can work on!

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Salesmen are in the business to sell the particular product they are hired to sell. And most are paid commission, so the more they sell, the more $$ they make. Telling prospective customers the bad points of the item is basically volunteering to work for less $$. And risking being fired because they're not doing their job.

Not pointing out the issues with a particular dirt bike is relatively innocent actually. Over on the street side, 18 yr old kid walks in and wants a really fast sport bike that will out run all his buddy's bikes. "Well" says the salesman, "you want this (enter prefix lettering here)1000, it makes 175hp and will outrun anything on the road". So the smiling, helpful salesman sends said 18 year old out the door on his 185mph first street bike, knowing full well the kid will probably be dead within a week..

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as all have mentioned above, the most common issue with salesmen is that they dont have a clue but "oversell" their product anyway, which just makes me want them to A:SHUT UP or B:leave me alone to ponder my purchase. unfortunately most buyers ARE clueless, and will eat the crap that salesmen feed them. i personally respect my dealer. he's the only one in our area that does public bike tests and lets us decide for ourselves, his HONESTY combined with the awesome bike i was able to test made him successful with me (since i ended up buying the 2011 rmz250 from him). whether that makes him successful or not. im not sure, but in the future ill keep him in mind

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Salespeople are trying to make a living. Some are honest, some are not. Any of them should do his best to sell you his own product beased on its merits, but he has no obligation whatsoever to tell you its shortcomings. That's your job to find out on your own.

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Its sad that this has been the way things are going. I guess the saying "anything to make a buck" really does apply.

It was just interesting when I was looking for a bike the responses I got about their bike. For Yamaha, the guy with solid conviction in his eyes said that the 2012 YZ 450f was the best turning 450 around, I suggested a the RMZ and then he goes to the reliablity aspect of a RMZ instead of backing up his statement. I asked about the "what ifs" of a Husaberg and the possiblity of a fuel pump problem, he told me they have never had one AND that he has never heard of the problem. Other things like I got 3 different prices on a 2010/2011/2012 YZ 450f all for $9500otd and all these dealers were within 100kms if each other.

I just find there is alot of BS out there and lots of people dont know much of anything about bikes or care to learn. How can a salesman sell you a dirtbike if he has never rode one in his life? Whats funny is that my gut was telling me to go with the guy I bought my GFs DRZ at, they were the last shop I called, gave me a smoking deal on their last 250xc and im picking it up tomorrow morning.

I get that everyone is trying to make a living but its sad to see that the guys selling bikes nowadays, most of them dont ride!

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I get that everyone is trying to make a living but its sad to see that the guys selling bikes nowadays, most of them dont ride!

That is sad. Riding is the best part of being involved in the industry.

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Its sad that this has been the way .

I get that everyone is trying to make a living but its sad to see that the guys selling bikes nowadays, most of them dont ride!

Thats just it! each bike has their positives! and as a dealer you should make your selling points those positive and beat around that bush instead of feeding customers BS. but they really are clueless because they DONT ride. oh well at least WE know better.

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Dealers have to believe in the bike/car/truck they sell. Even if it takes some convincing. The only time you will ever get a 'honest opinion' from one is when they are selling them faster than they can get them and their product is better than the competitions even when their product has flaws (they all do).

Some dealers/sales people are bald faced liars. Some honestly believe in their products. Most fall somewhere between the two.

A sale puts food on the table, singles in the hand.

ummm have to disagree with most of this post,when i owned a honda there was a salesman at he local dealer that told me that all the hype about crf250 top ends was just hype,he now works for the local kawi dealer...i now own a kawi...i was in there the other day ordering a couple things and over heard him trying to sell a kxf,he was bragging that the kawis dont suffer from the topend issues that the crfs have:busted:

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I know they're pretty biased. Last time I was at the shop to buy something for my CR250, I stopped to look at a new YZ on the floor. Well the salesman gave me an earful on how 4 strokes are better and that old 2 stroke technology couldnt keep up. Im just like whatever dude, and walked out. A couple weeks later I went back and the YZ was gone. The same four strokes were in thier exact position...

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ummm have to disagree with most of this post,when i owned a honda there was a salesman at he local dealer that told me that all the hype about crf250 top ends was just hype,he now works for the local kawi dealer...i now own a kawi...i was in there the other day ordering a couple things and over heard him trying to sell a kxf,he was bragging that the kawis dont suffer from the topend issues that the crfs have:busted:

You missed the point. Salesmen convince themselves and then go about convincing you. Their job is to make the BS believable, so the 'good' ones believe the BS, until they change brands.

I research, make a choice then shop for the best deal. I can care less about the dealer. When I bought my DRZ SM a few years ago, the sales guy gave me the line that he and all his friends rode DRZ SM's. Was in the store six months later and a guy was looking at quads. I overheard the salesman say 'my friends and I all own quads...'

It s very rare these days when I have met an knowledgable and honest sales person. Around here, I have met only one and that is the Yamaha dealer in Culpepper, VA.

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It s very rare these days when I have met an knowledgable and honest sales person. Around here, I have met only one and that is the Yamaha dealer in Culpepper, VA.

Here it's the local KTM/Husaberg/GasGas dealer. The guy that owns the dealership is a harescramble A rider, one of his mechanics is the Missouri State Champion AA/Pro rider (you will see his picture in the KTM hard parts catalog, Kole Hensley), everyone who works there rides/races to some extent.

The sales staff can, and will, discuss suspension settings, power delivery, tuning, etc.. with you before, during, and after the sale.

It's fun to just stop by there and bench race for a bit.

And everyone wonders why the woods have an Orange tint around here.👍

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i have a hard time justifing buying a new bike anyway,i think living in the desert has ruined that for me,but the guys at the service desk at the kawi dealer are pretty cool,they have all raced and the parts manager has owned like 4 KDX's so its cool to stop in there and shoot the crap,honda dealer moved into this huge brand new building and they suck to try to talk to now

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All dealers will have a biased opinion of the make they sell. The longer they have been there, the worse it is. If you sit in a room and are told that the color green(or red, blue, yellow, orange, not picking on Kawis here) will give you cancer, you are gonna laugh at the guy telling you that. But sit there long enough and i am sure you will avoid wearing that color when you get dressed in the morning.

You need to expect the dealer to have the "Its the best, i should know, i do this for a living." mentality when you walk into the showroom. The onus is on the buyer to be properly prepared.

1- Understand what you need.

Too much bike leads to injuries. Too little leads to boredom, and extra wear and tear. Consider height, weight, ride style, experience, etc before purchasing, because if you dont, you will be soon.

2- Consider where you ride, and where you would like to.

On a track, or in the bush, bikes are fun. But if you primarily ride one or the other, then your requirements will change from someone who rides both often. On a trail, gone for a whole day, i want a kickstand, and a boatload of fuel. Softer suspension, a headlight, brush guards, a whole lotta useful stuff. On a track i want speed. All the extra goodies can sit up at the truck, less weight is harder/better/faster/farther.

-3 Set a limit

Im not saying to limit your choices, time, or options. I am saying that knowing what you can spend ahead of time makes shopping these machines a lot easier. Falling in love with the perfect bike, only to have to leave it at the store sucks. If you go in willing to spend $XXXX.xx, only look in that range. If what you want isnt available in that range, your choices are either wait, aim lower, or buy a bike you will have to sell to put food on the table down the line.

4- Do your homework

Now you know what you need, find out where to get it. Magazine articles, test-drive promos at dealerships, online forums, word of mouth, and most importantly, seat time. Use all of these together, as well as any other info sources you may have at your disposal. Power, hadling, ride, gearing, all the real nuts and bolts of it. Learn everything you can, and whittle it down to a couple.

5- Make your selection.

This is where it gets fun. Now that you KNOW what you want, its time to measure that X-factor. Call it what you want, smile per mile, fun factor, enjoyability, anything. This is where you want to choose the machine that truly sings to you. When adjusting a lousy take off doesnt take muscle, instead takes a hard wish. The throttle feels like its automatic. Full of the right doses of fear and encouragement. The one that feels like its a part of you out there in the dirt. Thats your new bike.

6- Shop around

If you walk in and pay the price on the tag, you are paying too much. Unless its a ride that is backed way up, and tough to get, you can usually get it for less. Model year shifts are great for this as well. Different dealers, online dealers, whatever you can. Try to play them off each other if you can.

7- Develope a relationship.

This is the step a lot of people skip. If you go through all this, and you are lucky enough to have a pleasant experience with a dealer, reward them for the work. Making them jump through hoops for a better price is fine, but when the (not sure if i can swear on these forums yet) hits the fan, having a guy you can call is worth something too. I personally dont mind paying a few extra bucks for some stuff if it means i can actually deal with a person once in a while. I dont know everything by any means, and i am sure nobody else can claim the same. Its good to have some experience to fall back on. Plus when its time to call this bike miled out, you may just get a deal on the next one.

All in all, i dont see dealer "Morality" as that big of an issue. So long as you take the time to educate yourself, you will be much less vulnerable to shady, side glancing salesman. Their job is to sell the iron in front of them. If you arent a sucker, they cant sucker you.

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I work at a dealer in sales...... I sell Honda Yamaha Kawasaki and Suzukis. No I dont know every detail of all the bikes and ATVs. If I dont know I DONT fake it. You cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Every motorcycle/ATV has its pros and cons. Id rather sell to an educated buyer/rider than anybody else. It actually makes selling easier. I never bad mouth the competition because in most cases they have just as good of product. I point out the good points of what I sell and some of the bad as well. Ive learned that being honest is the best way to promote 2nd and sometimes 3rd time customers.

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Of the five or six bikes I have bought from a dealer, my experiences have been universally poor.

For example, the last one was a used streetbike (from Motosport Hillsboro- I tell every rider I meet about them and this deal). Nice clean 07 SV1000, I only talked them down a couple hundered from the asking price because it was a cream puff, cleaner than other SVs for sale in the area.

One day after purchase I realized that the cooling fan didn't work. Yes, my mistake. I didn't sit still for 20 minutes to test the fan and didn't realize until I was caught in a traffic jam. The salesman had a mechanic test it and it was determined that the fan motor was bad. Nope, it's $380- not gonna pay for a new one he says. Talked to the manager, says nope also. I'm starting to get pissed at this point, feeling screwed over. I say, well it's a used bike, I'll get one on ebay. How about $100 for that, and I'll walk away satsfied. Also no, and I left feeling like a sucker. I should have sued them in small claims court just out of stubbornness but instead I haven't been back and won't, the other dealers get my business now. Had they taken a reasonable approach, they would still be getting a few thousand a year in parts and gear purchases from me. That's my best example of a shady and stupid dealership.

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