Talon Rear Hub Wheel Bearing Seals - Gaps

[Byte]

Above picture shows a the rear talon hub that came with my newly purchased 09 250sxf.

i am currently inspecting all seals, bearings before i take it for a ride..

in this picture, you will see a significant gap between the ID of the wheel bearing seals and the shaft for the rear talon hub.

I am guessing this gap should not exist - is this correct?

I do not know if the previous owner could not locate a seal that correctly fitted and fitted any seal he had on hand, or whatever....

These seals have the following text stamped on the outside - "Talon 30x46.65".

I brought the wheel to my local bearing/seal supplier and showed them.

They stated that the 30x46.65 size is not a standard size and they could not supply the same seal, and also stated no gap should exist between the ID of the seal and the shaft OD and suggested this may be the wrong seal, which may have allowed lots of ingress.

They also stated that they could supply a seal that could match the shaft (25x47).

I also called Talon direct, and they said that the sizing should be generic, and could not understand this dilemma.

I am unable to remove the seals due to insufficient area for leverage because of the shaft in the way.

To remove these seals, do i need to press out this shaft?

If so, will anything else be damaged?

I acknowledge that I will need to replace both seals, and all bearings inside.

Byte

Edited October 27, 2011 by Byte

[matt4x4]

In most cases, you press one side bearing into the hub, insert the bushing spacer tube and press the opposite bearing in, this will encapsulate the tube between the bearings and stop any lateral pressure on your inner bearing race when fastening the wheel to the bike.

The seals are put in after the bearings are installed.

On most bikes, the seal opening is larger than the inner bearing race/inner diameter of the tube, this gap is taken up when you insert your wheel spacer.

What you should be testing the opening with the wheel spacer that's currently on your bike, NOT the inner tube, inner spacer tube has nothing to do with the seal size you need.

See KTM parts diagram here:

http://www.ktmpartspitstop.com/pages/OemParts#/KTM/250_SX-F_Chassis_-_2009/Rear_Wheel/20|~17|~0005/20|~17|~0031

[DHS_sponsored]

Im sure there should be a wheel spacer that slides over that collar. My CR Talon wheels have a similar set up.

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

don't the wheel spacers fill that gap.

i don't have my wheel in front of me, but IIRC, that's how mine is on my talon hub - although different application.

[Byte]

yes - you guys are right.

many questions still remain...

how then do i remove these seals? i want to replace both.

i cannot insert anything in the gap to wedge them out. do i need to remove the Bushing Spacer tube (item 3) to remove the seals? if so, how?

are these seals standard size in usa? if so, can you provide me a link for these seals in usa, as i will need to buy them from usa. Austrailia does not stock these sized seals.

byte

[krash24]

Hey off topic slightly, I bought an 04 yz250 with talon hubs and due to pressure washing the rear bearings seized allowing the whole bearing to spin and wallow the hub, I tried to fit new bearings and they were so loosly fit I could slide them in by hand... Anyways the fix was red loctite on the outer edge of the bearing and inner part of the hub, No more freeplay or spinning outer race!

[Byte]

Thanks Krash - Good tip.

Can anyone offer some assistance with my questions?

Byte

[Byte]

Can the bushing insert spacer be pushed out without press or does it need to be pressed out by a press machine?

How to??????

Byte

Edited October 27, 2011 by Byte

[matt4x4]

i have a feeling that someone before you tried to do some "special" engineering on that hub and inserted a tube through the bearings which is what yo are seeing, the bushing tube should actually be sitting BETWEEN the outer bearings and the spacers should then sit on the outside of the bearings.

I would think you can press that tube out - although if it's pressed into the bearings, you will probably need to replace the bearings due to the lateral pressure you will be putting onto the inner race.

Once you have it all apart, you should find the ACTUAL spacer tube between the bearings, replace the bearings and seals with OEM or aftermarket replacement bearings/seals since Talon already told you everything should be "generic" replacement.

To pull off the seals, you can use a small pick or small flathead with the tip bent 90 degrees, slide it under on the inner edge and yank outwards away from the hub and the seal should just pop out, there should be a retainer circlip on at least one side holding the bearing in place....at least on the OEM hub there is.

I am wondering, is this wheel what came off your bike or is it a spare wheel? if this was on your bike just how it looks, someone's special engineering skills really need to be reviewed lol.

You may also have to buy wheel spacers if this wheel was on your bike like that.....sad what some do...especially with expensive aftermarket parts.

The link I gave you above takes you to a KTM dealer on line - just search for your bike and specific parts you want.

[Byte]

Thanks Matt for your good advice.

Firstly, I just purchased the bike and so any "special engineering" woudl have been done by the previous owner - if this actually occurred.

Secondly, I now have doubts about what my local Talon Dealer stated because I see dedicated bearing kits for TALON OS such as :

http://www.talon-eng.co.uk/talon-wheel-bearings.asp

http://www.motostrano.com/tahubbeseand.html

Third - Judging by what I now know, it seems I will need to go the whole hog and replace all bearings/seals in this rear hub. (and I will purchase a TALON kit from one of the above OS suppliers).

If I get that bushing insert spacer pressed out, is there a danger of damaging the internals of the hub in any way?

I will take this wheel to an Engineering Workshop with a proper press.

Do I need to remove the seals first before I press the bushing insert spacer out?

If so, I am having big issues with gaining sufficient clearance to wedge something in the gap to lever them out (because of that spacer being in the way)...

Byte

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

it all looks like standard talon stuff to me. it would help to see the spacers that go with the hub.

no need for a press. just pry the seals out & drive rotor side bearing out with a drift. then the sleeve will drop right out & give a clear shot to remove the sprocket side bearings.

regarding your question of how to remove the seal. use a pic or cotter pin removal tool. some thing with a hook shape will let you get underneath it to pry it up.

it's only rubber & should come out easily. if you're going to replace them it should be real easy. i was able to remove mine without damaging them.

[Byte]

THanks.

THe funny (or not so funny) thing is that I cannot pick the seals out because they are encapsulated by steel - just underneath the rubber surface of the seal.

I was able to pick the front seals out easily (also talon hub), because there was no steel material underneath them.

I will try and post more pics of the spacers in a few minutes...

Byte

[Byte]

Pics..

Apologies for poor picture quality...

ANyway, 2 pcs of the spacers (one of each for front and rear) - I do not which spacer is used for which end now...

THe other 2 pics show the bushing insert spacer protruding out and you can also see the beginning a seal break away I tried to start to show the steel just underneath the surface of the seal...

[b-rabbit]

Call Dubya or QTMI and they should be able to help you out with specs or new bearing parts, Maybe they can give you dimensions of what each one should be and you can measure the items that you do have.

www.dubyausa.com/

www.qtmi.com

I have the Carbon Talon hubs and they seem to look a little different then what you have. Unless it is the picture quality throwing me off.

[b-rabbit]

duplicate post

[Byte]

thanks b-rabbit.

can u possibly post pictures of your rear talon hub?

Byte

[Byte]

OK - contacted the local Talon dealer.

New set of bearings/seals on their way.

I am sorted - for now..

Byte

[Byte]

OK -

Bearings were pressed out today from both front and rear talon hubs.

One of the rear bearings were siezed and the other rear bearing felt rough and not very smooth, and most likely about to sieze as well.

I notice these rear bearings are made in Taiwan, and the front bearings are made in Japan. The front bearings appear OK, but will replace them anyway.

I have ordered new rear bearings from Talon for both front and rear.

Does anyone know if the bearings Talon supply for their hubs are any good?

I am thinking I should buy similar bearings form my local dealer instead - which are of a known quality brand (i.e. SKF, Japanese, etc)???

THoughts?

Byte

[Byte]

Anyone have a choice of wheel bearing to use on their bikes?

Byte