New/starting problem 650l

[513rider]

What's up guys. I've been lurking around this forum for quite sometime. Tons of great guys and excellent information. My brother fell into a (what the guy told him) is a '94 Xr650l. The PO had the top end rebuilt because I guess it was smoking bad and the bike had been sitting since (done 6 months ago). He had never started the bike since. So he went and got the bike. We dumped the fuel, cleaned the carb as it was fully gelled up. Put it all back together and fired it off a car battery jumper (he didn't have a battery) and it fired almost immediately!

He rode it around for a bit but then it just died? Drug it back up the hill and hooked it up to the jumper and fired it up again. Bike has a good amount of power and feels really strong. He took it out again and it died a few minutes into riding it again. Drug it up and hooked it to the jumper but nothing happens this time. It would crank sometimes and others it would sound like the starter wouldnt start? Any ideas?

I saw some threads talking about the CDi and choke possibly? We were thinking there may be a short somewhere and it's grounding itself out? Not positive as we just started fooling with it. I did a vin search on it and it turns out it isn't stolen and it's a '97! He didn't have a title for it either... Any thoughts on that too?

Sorry for the 20 questions... Here's the bike. We took the tank off to clean the carb and flush the old gas.

Oh and by the way... He paid $400 for it!!!!!!!?

[Cdlane]

Hi, the bike quitting could be several things, but I would suspect first fuel (easy place to start) replace the line, clean out the tank and re-clean the carb. If the gas was gelled in the carb, would be crappy right through and just replacing gas might not be enough. If all that doesn't correct the running issue, look to your plug, and check to see if you are getting gas and check the spark. (You can get a little tool you hook up inline at a parts store and set the gap and watch the clear tube.) If you have spark and no gas, look to your carb, if no spark, electrical. (You'll have to look to others if it's electrical, as that is not my forte!) Also, the starter not turning wouldn't be your CDI, could be bad connection or over-heating if you've been tuning it over alot... Hope some of this helps and good luck getting the pig going!

[voodoolord]

I think you should check the battery and make sure its good, if not buy a new one and charge it. Jumping it alot is probably not a good idea. How much of the carb did you clean? Did you use air to blow it out? Check your plug like said before.

[513rider]

Thanks for the help guys. He is buying a new battery today, and a new plug. I cleaned the carb very thoroughly with carb cleaner, pulled the jets, cleaned them, bowl, slide, etc. blew it out with the air hose and replaced everything. I'll do that all again here in a bit and see what happens. I think with a new plug, battery and a cleaner carb this pig will run! My background is mainly in dirt and I have riden a lot of bike's, and I was surprised at how fun this thing is! Especially after riding my roommates XRR.

Really fun bike and thanks again guys! I'll post up some better pics and more details as it comes along.

[thumpharder]

I can not stress how important it is to clean every little hole and passage in that carb, use a strand from a wire brush and run all holes idle bypass, mid bypass, everything, pull emultion tube and do the cross holes.

The battery, at least make sure it has one, don't run without it, even if it's dead, at least have it there for the electrics to complete a circuit.

need to know what it does when it dies, just shuts off or stumbles ?

[513rider]

Put in a new battery and cleaned the plug and this is all it's doing. Not sure what to do now? Short in a wire? Bad starter? Start tracing wires? I never have been to good with electrics. Any help would be appreciated.

http://s836.photobucket.com/albums/zz285/wierac21/?action=view&current=db918068.mp4

[513rider]

This video is with a brand new plug and the battery hooked up to a car jumper. Any new ideas? I'm gonna pull the carb tomorrow and see if it's still clogged.

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz285/wierac21/90ea2c49.mp4

[BLSBRKR65]

Check the cable that goes into the starter motor. It may be loose. Clean the run/start switch as well and check the green ground cable under the seat.

[Old Dog]

My money is on a bad CDI.

[thumpharder]

My money is on a bad CDI.

Sounds like the best bet

[voodoolord]

Did you check for spark with the spark plug pulled and grounded to the frame? Thats your first check.

[shane1733]

Check kill switch connection, sounds like what my bike was doing. New connection and fixed

[djr01974]

Did you happen to check the valve lash?

[513rider]

Thanks for the help guys. I'll inform my brother and tell him he needs to get himself a CDi. Where's the best place to buy? Xrsonly? Or can I just hit uP like mtorcycle superstore?

Thanks again for all your help!

[Horri]

Darn good buy for 400..,New CDIs are not cheap,,Honda for new,,Ebay for used or maybe Mr Hare for a reconditioned unit..

Pity you don't know anyone with another 650L,,swapping around bits would be the go before you commit to a new one or new of anything electrical for that matter..Spending good cash on possibles is a bit of a lucky dip really.

[513rider]

Checked the spark. Old plug was putting out light spark. Replaced spark lead and cap and a new plug. Had a brighter spark still same result though. I'll look into kill switch connection.

How do I go about checking valve lash/make an adjustment? I'll do a quick search for other threads on here first.

[Horri]

Here's a bit of a guide from another thread I posted in..

First move is to get the 4 Tappet inspection covers off the tappet cover and the two inspection caps off the bottom left hand side of the motor...,,then..

The timing and gaps have to be done at TDC on the compression stroke..The indication of when you are on TDC on the compression stroke is that the Piston should be at the top of the bore,,the T on it's mark and all the valve/tappets should be loose to the touch,,,ie all the tappets should move slightly up and down when jiggled with the fingers..that occurs on TDC of the comp stroke,,don't go loosening them willy nilly just to attain looseness..it's a natural part of the engine cycling that achieves it,,So essentially,,go round and round in an anti-clockwise direction using the socket on the crank bolt until you find the above "looseness' condition..The one exception to the "looseness" condition may be that front right exhaust valve which can appear tight due to that hand operated decomp ,,I try and make sure it's not interfering by pushing the lever on the head totally out of the way. Use a pencil or something down the plug hole to show whether the Pistons at the top of the cylinder,,(don't get it jammed and snap the end off,,take it easy and hold on to the end of it as you rotate the crank bolt around to the T to avoid it getting stuck)..Must be TDC,,comp stroke, to do tappet gaps..

Forgot to say..Rotate the engine in an anti-clockwise direction to get to TDC,,this doesn't matter if you have all the stuff removed from the Cam which controls the auto decomp ,rotation in any direction will do in that case as far as I'm aware....In your case go anti-clockwise.

Don't go using the electric start to get to TDC,,,Take the inspection caps off the left hand bottom casing of the engine and use a socket..be aware of movement from the T mark as you do the job..,Flywheel weight and what I like to call the "floating point" of the engine tends to make things flop off the T mark ,,get someone to hold the socket or lock it somehow so the T stays put ..

Assuming you're semi knowledgable about doing Tappets I shouldn't need to explain how to use a feeler gauge ..Gaps I dunno off hand..Someone else can chime in with them..if they don't I'll dig out the manual later..

No ones bothered so..

Intake==>.0.10mm (0.004in)

Xhaust==> 0.12mm (0.005)

Bit difficult reading some feeler gauges...The feeler gauge thickness to use is a bit like fine paper,,ie,,not thick so don't get confused with numbers.. You'll be needing a shortish screwdriver and a 12mm spanner type socket for the nut. Hold the screwdriver in the slot as you adjust things with the screwdriver and as you tighten the nut home..Both tools need to be used in conjunction with one another all the way up to you tightening the nut..,,If you don't use both together you'll mess things up as the whole thing rotates as you tighten the nut thus shagging the screw setting..Kind of two man job for the inexperienced..Re-check once the nuts tight..

Edited November 1, 2011 by Horri

[513rider]

Thanks for the detailed anwser. My brother and I will crack into this case a bit more this weekend. I was also reading on the CDi issue and gonna give that a whirl too. Reading the "rebuild CDi..." thread it mentioned rapping on the back of it with a screwdriver to see if it does anything. Gonna try that first.

It's just odd that it died. When we first got the bike home we cleaned the carb and put fresh gas in. Hooked it up to a car jumper and the bike fired almost instantly. I rode it for a bit, handed it off to my cousin and so on. It died shortly after with my brother on it and wouldn't restart. It seems to me (little internal engine knowledge) that if the valves we're out of adjustment it would have never fired in the first place? I mean it fired like immediately the first time.

Not sure but we are willing to try more options. And I forgot to mention that the previous owner hacked all the handlebar electrics into oblivion and re-wired the headlight/kill switch into two seperate toggle switches. We have been chasing wires for sometime trying to see if something grounded out along the frame while he was riding.

Thanks for all the continued support!

[Horri]

No problem..Those 650Ls have a couple of oddball type safety switches on them that means they won't start unless the procedure/system is in the right hemisphere.,.I'm not sure on what they are but having the sidestand down is I believe one of them..the other,,not sure..a 650L owner can tell you.,I'd certainly re-check the cleanliness of the carb as if it was gummed up like jelly there's every chance more junk may have shifted from somewhere unseen and blocked things again..If it was me I'd also pull the motor out of the frame and have a look at the Ignition/Valve timing..never know,,the thing may have a bad Cam chain and jumped one tooth on the sprocket during your short ride thus stuffing things up in that department,,a cog jump may be not enough to cause Valves to hit Pistons but enough to render her a non starter..I'd get the manual and recheck all the p/os work just to rule it out..,Try the CDI tapping/whacking and carb first..

Do you happen to have a manual for the bike??..If not let us know and someone may be able to point you in the direction of a free downloadable PDF version of one which you can use on your Computer..I've a few just not sure how to get such things to you..One's in smallish sections so I suppose email may be able to handle it,..A 600 one will also do for most of your bike bar the wiring and a few other things..engine and maintainance stuffs basically the same otherwise for both models

Edited November 2, 2011 by Horri

[513rider]

Thanks again for the help. I've found a few online PDF manuals but personally I have always loved to have the hard copy in my hand. I got a buddy who is the parts manager at a local Honda dealer and can prolly hook me up with a manual on the cheap.

I may even take the whole bike up there and see if we can swap in the CDi off a new bike just to see if that's the problem.