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If 2-strokes were brought back

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Ok so if all the manufacturers started making EFI 2-strokes and some keeping the 4-strokes like yamaha and ktm have the 2-strokes now. This is if for example kawasaki bought back the KDX, Suzuki the RMX, and Yamaha the WR. And of course all the 125s, 250s and 500s. Would there be anyone saving the thumpers and swearing by them like the 2-strokes nowadays and only riding them.

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the old,fat,lazy,and beginners would be all over the thumpers simply because they are easier to ride

personally id be ALL OVER the new smokers and wouldnt ride anything else

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plenty of companies make 2 strokes now, ktm, gasgas, husqvarna, husaberg, yamaha come to mind

come to think of it, almost every rider from florida I've rode with at durhamtown was on a KTM

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When/IF i can afford it , i would LOVE to have a KTM 250XC-W or 300XC-W , , but i still like my reliable CRF450X and my 02 CRF450R , they really are no more maintenance for me than a 2 stroke would be , i never understood the reason for not continuing to produce those bikes (the RMX is a sweet bike bone stock , its a trail demon !) , but i would have both , as the only downside to the 2 strokes is the mileage compared to a 4 stroke , you can go a lot farther on 2 1/2 gallons on a 4 stroke than you can on a 2 stroke , at the price of gas , its almost cheaper to ride a 4 stroke the same distance

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I think if they were direct injection there would be a huge relapse in two strokes

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I think if they were direct injection there would be a huge relapse in two strokes

It's coming, mark my word, it's coming. Just because the Japanese mfg's dropped the ball on 2 strokes does not mean our heroes like KTM, Husky ,GasGas, TM and Beta are not working hard to get it right. 2 strokes are not dead and one day I hope the AMA will stop sucking up to the Big 4 and make 2t vs 4t's a level playing field with EQUAL displacements.

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I loved my kdx 220 unfortunately the same cant be said for the rest of new jersey:(What a reliable decently fast and suspended motorcycle that for the price for a new 1 was 1 of the best deals going in powersports before kawie killed it.

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That's a big "what-if"... I don't see the Japanese builders moving away from 4t's anytime soon. That's fine with me, the Euro builders have me covered when the time comes to replace my CR.

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it would be pretty cool to see 2 strokes be king again. I hate when i go into the bike dealership and the guy who knows it all (sarcasm) tries tellin me my 2 stroke fouls plug and has too violent of a powerband for the woods. i had a kdx and an rm 125 and just got a 09 kawi 250f. honestly i love 2 strokes but the 250f is a great bike. four strokes are dominating now only because they run awesome and the technology of the modern four stroke is great. so, 2 strokes will come back if they can just get a technoloigcal edge over the 4 stroke.

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It's coming, mark my word, it's coming. Just because the Japanese mfg's dropped the ball on 2 strokes does not mean our heroes like KTM, Husky ,GasGas, TM and Beta are not working hard to get it right. 2 strokes are not dead and one day I hope the AMA will stop sucking up to the Big 4 and make 2t vs 4t's a level playing field with EQUAL displacements.

Do you live under a rock? 250 2 strokes have been allowed in the 250 class for a couple years now. Even with that rule change, around my area, the 250 classes (D, C, B, and Pro) are still at least 75% 250F's. Its a bike that is easier to ride, and lets you ride faster for longer. I made the switch back to the 250F after racing a 250 2 stroke for a year. Other than pure HP, it is still an advantage to be on a 250F, IMO.

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When/IF i can afford it , i would LOVE to have a KTM 250XC-W or 300XC-W , , but i still like my reliable CRF450X and my 02 CRF450R , they really are no more maintenance for me than a 2 stroke would be , i never understood the reason for not continuing to produce those bikes (the RMX is a sweet bike bone stock , its a trail demon !) , but i would have both , as the only downside to the 2 strokes is the mileage compared to a 4 stroke , you can go a lot farther on 2 1/2 gallons on a 4 stroke than you can on a 2 stroke , at the price of gas , its almost cheaper to ride a 4 stroke the same distance

if DI/EFI came into play, 2 strokes would be just as efficent, if not more efficent then a 4 stroke.

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I get the dealer line w they sell what people are buying or they sell what people want or need which is total horsecrap.I dont see how people can keep affording to finance 8 grand plus machines in this economy?

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I loved my kdx 220 unfortunately the same cant be said for the rest of new jersey:(What a reliable decently fast and suspended motorcycle that for the price for a new 1 was 1 of the best deals going in powersports before kawie killed it.

You may want to check with the EPA on the death of the KDX.

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The diesels are easier to ride on a moto track. Moto is very popular.

Off-roaders make do. The diesels have gone the street bike route into overspecialization. You can't really click a couple of clickers and go off road anymore and expect to have a decent bike.

More work, more money, more screwing around. Some guys are willing to do it. Good luck with that. I don't see the appeal. My bikes serve me.

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Do you live under a rock? 250 2 strokes have been allowed in the 250 class for a couple years now. Even with that rule change, around my area, the 250 classes (D, C, B, and Pro) are still at least 75% 250F's. Its a bike that is easier to ride, and lets you ride faster for longer. I made the switch back to the 250F after racing a 250 2 stroke for a year. Other than pure HP, it is still an advantage to be on a 250F, IMO.

I think he's talking about at the pro level. Equal displacement is only allowed in the amateur ranks. I have both 2 and 4 strokes, and its only an advantage to be on a 250f over a 250 2t if you don't have the ability to ride the 2t to its potential.

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I think he's talking about at the pro level. Equal displacement is only allowed in the amateur ranks. I have both 2 and 4 strokes, and its only an advantage to be on a 250f over a 250 2t if you don't have the ability to ride the 2t to its potential.

Yes, I think "potential" plays a big role. It seems like a lot of times at the track it's some kid on an 85cc smoker that's turning the fastest laps all day!

4 stokes do certainly appeal to less skilled riders, but I also think that it would be easy to tune a 250 smoker to mimic the power characteristics of a 250 4 stroke--it would still have 2 stroke benefits (light weight, low maintenance, cheap repairs), but easy for less skilled riders to use. A bike like that could win a lot of races, but I don't know if it would sell, as it would "feel" slow compared to the usual 2 stroke set up.

I would like to have Japanese options for a smoker (besides the ageing YZ), but I'm very happy with my KTM smoker, and the next bike may well be a Gas Gas.

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Here's my 2c

We can blame the EPA and in general our government/culture for the demise of the 2 stroke. People see the smoke, they hear the noise, and they automatically assume that it is a dirty engine. And that is in fact reality. The 2 strokes pollute more, plain and simple. I understand that our market is a niche and doesn't affect the big picture of how the mass market pollutes. In the world we live in, what matters is perception, not reality. This is an unfortunate reality. Just as another for instance, look at advertisements about zero emissions vehicles. Cars that run only on batteries. How great is that? A car that makes no emissions whatsoever! The pesky little problem with this is that A) the high power/efficiency batteries that that car runs on are a bitch to make, using a lot of resources and polluting the environment, both in manufacture and in toxic waste when the battery is disposed of, and :busted: the electrical demand that is required to constantly charge the battery requires extra output from our power systems. This usually means burning more coal, building bigger dams, or building new nuclear power plants. Bottom line: the EPA and the greenies out there don't want us to have clean energy or higher quality of life, they only want to bring us down to the days of the horse drawn carriage and the mule driven plow.

Direct injection/efi

There are some problems with using these methods on our dirtbikes. For sure, these technologies would make the bikes pollute less, and in the case of direct injection, make more power. EFI alone would not make more power without a lot of added complexity. With EFI, you usually get more torque in the lower end and midrange, but less torque in the higher rpm range than a carburetor. Without multi stage EFI, you just don't get the atomization that a carb provides in the upper end of the powerband.

One of the great things about a two stroke is their light weight and simplicity. If you add EFI or Direct Injection, you will add a lot of weight and complexity. To run a good efi system, you need a variety of sensors, fuel injectors, a complicated electronic controller unit, an extensive wiring harness, a battery or some other electrical power supply, and a heavy fuel pump. You're looking at 5-10 pounds of extra stuff at the minimum. With direct injection, it gets even worse. Direct injection requires very high fuel pressures, typically in excess of 1000 psi. In order to run a system like this, you need extra heavy duty steel fuel lines and fittings and injector systems that can withstand the punishing environment of the combustion chamber. This stuff is very, very expensive, and quite heavy to boot. The electronic control system must also be more sophisticated to more carefully regulate the supply of fuel into the chamber, adding significant expense to the system. And what happens when one of those pressurized fuel lines snags a tree limb or gets pounded with roost and bursts? I can say that I sure as heck don't want a 60 psi (EFI) or a 1000 psi (DI) fuel spray coming from my bike miles away in the woods.

I'm not saying that these technologies aren't helpful for the two stroke and can't be done, but looking at the big picture, I just can't see how it is practical at this point. Many of the things that we love about our two strokes would change. These technologies would add weight and complexity. Tuning EFI or direct injection systems requires in-depth understanding that I have rarely seen from the dirt bike community. The added expense of these systems would bridge the cost of manufacture gap that currently exists between the two stroke and the four stroke, making it less appealing for the manufacturers to jump on the bandwagon. I just don't see this happening anytime soon.

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One of the great things about a two stroke is their light weight and simplicity. If you add EFI or Direct Injection, you will add a lot of weight and complexity. To run a good efi system, you need a variety of sensors, fuel injectors, a complicated electronic controller unit, an extensive wiring harness, a battery or some other electrical power supply, and a heavy fuel pump. You're looking at 5-10 pounds of extra stuff at the minimum.

The EFI system on the Montesa 4RT ( I own one) weighs ~ 4 ounces more than the carb it replaced. The throttle body weighs less than the carb, the ECU is virtually identical so the only real difference is the small fuel pump.

Have you ever actually looked at the FI setup on a dirt bike? They don't need a battery to operate. The electronics instantly power up and stabilize when you kick it. The Montesa uses the off the shelf Keihn system that virtually everybody else is using. My understanding is the newer version weighs no more than a FCR carb.

I have a 350exc on the way. It uses a similar Keihn system. The bike weighs only slightly more than many 2 strokes and it's a FI 4T.

The only real issue right now is mostly on KTMs due to fuel pump failures and extremely small injector nozzles, both of which can be dealt with. Ethanol fuel is not only problematic with carbs, it's causing issues with FI.

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