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Back to Back? TE300 & 300 XC-w ??

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curious if any here have ridden the two back to back

new berg smoker vs the new Ktm smoker

What I know of the differences (from reading and dealers)

  • Berg Differences
  • Larger Tank
  • Closed Cart Forks
  • Map switch
  • Skid Plate
  • V Force Intake boot (matched to the V Force Reed cage)
  • Different suspension Valving front and rear

  • KTM Differences
  • New 2012 Frame
  • Touch longer shock with new frame / shock tower

question is....

what are differences in the ride and power delivery?

Local Berg Dealer said there is a remarkable difference when riding...power and handling...but....he is a berg dealer

:busted:

Curious if anyone has ridden both back to back and what you discerned??

Thanx!!

HR

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I just read about the new Berg in one of the magazines.. The Berg is a kinda hybrid..

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digging, researching

berg dealer told me, engine is different, porting etc.

just hit the parts catalog for both the KTM XC-w and the TE-300

cylinder - identical part numbers

Piston - identical part numbers

full ignition system from flywheel, stator to CDI - identical

I do know

the closed cartridge forks are stock on the TE

Stock TE tank is a touch larger

shock is different between the two bikes (frame is different, KTM on their new frame, Berg on the 2009-2011 frame)

Motors and ignition are identical, at least the top ends, ignition and driving transmission are the same....

HR

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Engines, ignitions are the same maybe the Vforce 4 is only on the Bergs. The main differences are the suspension and frame.

Over here in Europe, the 2012 KTMs are not getting good reveiws on the suspensions and the Bergs have the best off the shelf suspension with specific valving changes.

It is obvious that KTM has to get rid of all the pds shocks before they go to the linkage, so the have stuck the pds shock in the newer frame which doesn't work as well as the earlier 2008-2011 frames.

Check out the ewc results, the Bergs in E3 class are top, same as some extreme races, while racers are having problems with the newer KTMs.

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Are the differences big enough that it would make any real difference? I have several bikes that most people would consider very "different" (KTM and J bikes), yet my lap times are pretty much the same, and I enjoy them all. If it were me, I would go with the best deal.

Alos, I think DR is going to do a comparison issue shortly looking specifically at the berg and ktm setups on the big smokers. They had a video on their website recently.

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Engines, ignitions are the same maybe the Vforce 4 is only on the Bergs. The main differences are the suspension and frame.

Over here in Europe, the 2012 KTMs are not getting good reveiws on the suspensions and the Bergs have the best off the shelf suspension with specific valving changes.

It is obvious that KTM has to get rid of all the pds shocks before they go to the linkage, so the have stuck the pds shock in the newer frame which doesn't work as well as the earlier 2008-2011 frames.

Check out the ewc results, the Bergs in E3 class are top, same as some extreme races, while racers are having problems with the newer KTMs.

dryz250 (or others in Europe); Are Husabergs super widespread in Europe? Here in the US, Husaberg hasn't established a real foothold (yet) like KTM has in recent years. The Japanese 4 used to dominate here but I'm seeing more and more KTM's, especially in the woods. Still very few Husaberg's though. Time will tell.

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Husaberg is owned by KTM, like Porche is owned by VW!! They use KTM parts to make a better end product. Not many around greece either...

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The difference in motors is the cylinder position and head configuration. The berg ports are slightly lower, and the squish band is slightly less giving the bike more felt power down low... The xcw is a little more mellow stock, but can easily be modded to match berg, or even stronger.

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how?

Im confused (easy to do) :busted:

the top end part numbers for the cylinder, piston etc etc for the two bikes:

TE300

&

300XC-w

are identical #s according to the TE300 and 300 XCw parts manuals from KTM/Husaberg.

go to your berg dealer order a new jug etc and he pulls the same part numbers as the KTM dealer does down the road.

Im just trying to better understand the differences of the two bikes, and a key one is dealer telling me the motor porting etc is different.

What am I missing here in the world of parts?

HR

The difference in motors is the cylinder position and head configuration. The berg ports are slightly lower, and the squish band is slightly less giving the bike more felt power down low... The xcw is a little more mellow stock, but can easily be modded to match berg, or even stronger.
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how?

Im confused (easy to do) :busted:

the top end part numbers for the cylinder, piston etc etc for the two bikes:

TE300

&

300XC-w

are identical #s according to the TE300 and 300 XCw parts manuals from KTM/Husaberg.

go to your berg dealer order a new jug etc and he pulls the same part numbers as the KTM dealer does down the road.

Im just trying to better understand the differences of the two bikes, and a key one is dealer telling me the motor porting etc is different.

What am I missing here in the world of parts?

HR

easy to do with a thinner base gasket....lowering the jug, lowering the port and improving squish.

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but its not known which is stock for either bike and or if they are different...

brain lock on the base gasket and effects

berg parts on base gasket

30 54830030002 GASKET CYLINDER BASE 0,2MM 03

30 54830030004 GASKET CYLINDER BASE 0,4MM 03

30 54830030005 GASKET CYLINDER BASE 0,5MM 03

30 54830030075 GASKET CYLINDER BASE 0,75MM 03

and the KTM parts

30 54830030002 GASKET CYLINDER BASE 0.2MM 03

30 54830030004 GASKET CYLINDER BASE 0.4MM 03

30 54830030005 GASKET CYLINDER BASE 0.5MM 03

30 54830030075 GASKET CYLINDER BASE 0.75MM 03

HR

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You know from reading all of this as well as other articles on the Berg. I'm under a strong impression that the Berg is 80% KTM, the only real differences are minor frame stuff and plastics. I doubt 99% of people could ride them back to back and be able to tell the difference.

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Alos, I think DR is going to do a comparison issue shortly looking specifically at the berg and ktm setups on the big smokers. They had a video on their website recently.

Do you have a link on that....

am curious how it will go.......if there is any noticible diffference from open cart to closed cardridge forks for the average rider..!!!

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Alos, I think DR is going to do a comparison issue shortly looking specifically at the berg and ktm setups on the big smokers. They had a video on their website recently.

Do you have a link on that....

am curious how it will go.......if there is any noticible diffference from open cart to closed cardridge forks for the average rider..!!!

there was a video link on this forum not too long ago. may be able to find the video on DR's website.

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am curious how it will go.......if there is any noticible diffference from open cart to closed cardridge forks for the average rider..!!!

CC forks are stiffer through the upper and mid stroke I believe, which allows them to handle bigger hits. So on large jumps or blasting fast down the trail the CC will handle it better.

That all being said, how do you measure the average rider?

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You know from reading all of this as well as other articles on the Berg. I'm under a strong impression that the Berg is 80% KTM, the only real differences are minor frame stuff and plastics. I doubt 99% of people could ride them back to back and be able to tell the difference.

the berg is way prettier, that's what counts.

i seriously doubt there is a significant diff in the tune of the motor, and even if there was, I seriously doubt I could tell the difference while riding. All 300's work pretty darned well offroad.

i haven't ridden a ton of cc forks, but all the ones i've tried have seemed to me to be plusher and less spikey and small stuff while still maintaining better bottoming resistance and stability on bigger stuff. they go against my 'simpler is better' philosophy, but they do seem to work.

Then again, my experience is mostly based on riding the whole berg line back to back on an offroad circuit in gunnison a year or so ago. I was very impressed by the forks on the fx450.

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There is an article in the November Dirt bike.. According to The article, I'll outline.

Motor:

Same new cylinder porting, TVS power valve, New V-force reed, pipe and silencer. The 2012 KTM gets the new airboot which enhances flow and power. The berg has the dual map switch stock.

Gearbox:

Same six speed. 13/50

Ergos, and look:

Berg has a yellow frame, has the same cooling system, body work is from the 11 KTM, berg colors.

Suspension:

Front- closed cartridge, Berg uses last years PDS and 11mm shorter shock. Valving is different.

Chasis:

The Berg has blue rims, Brembo brakes, MX51 tires, 22mm offset and adjustable triple clamps.

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