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22mm triple clamps

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Some say yes, I say no.

22mm clamps gives it more high speed stability.

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22mm clamps gives it more high speed stability.

That is opposite to everything I have heard. 22mm should make it turn better, but sacrifice a little high speed stability. I ran 22's on my 09 and I didn't notice a drastic difference and went back to stock. But I am a 37 year old vet rider, so maybe my sensitivity is dulled:ride:

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That is opposite to everything I have heard. 22mm should make it turn better, but sacrifice a little high speed stability.

You heard wrong.

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i have always understood the 22mm or 20mm would help turning and sacrifice high speed stability as well, versus say 24mm or 25 mm...?even spoke to a friend that has an 09 that put on 22 mm clamps and was able to get the bike to turn better versus stock....he frequents this site and hopefully will chime in on the subject.

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You heard wrong.

I know you know about these bikes, and I am not sure what they report overseas, but EVERY manufacturer and every magazine tests in America says that the 22mm offset on the KX250F is for quicker turning. It is geometry and physics that is beyond my college education, but you can't get quicker turning and gain stability. The Kawasaki teams always changed to 22 or even 20 to offer better turning. Less offset of the triple clamps brings the front wheel in, making for quicker turning. More triple clamp offset pushes the forks out and makes it more stable. The offset of the forks, has an effect on the trail.

A few things I found: From MXA

1. A solution to the handling problem is to invest in 22mm offset aftermarket triple clamps. The handling becomes more precise and the front-end feels more planted, thanks to the increased trail.

2. Our solution in 2009 was the same as in 2008. Swap the stock triple clamps for 22mm offset clamps. This is what all of the factory Kawasaki riders run on their bikes. With more trail, the handling became precise and the front-end felt planted through the entire turn. We were also able to run 100mm of sag and return the fork leg height to 5mm (down from 9mm).

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The honest question to ask yourself is.......Are you turning/pushing the bike's geometry to it's absolute limit, or does your skill level have room to grow?

Me personally, I'm not that fast so clamps are not the answer to my lap times. Seat time is. Sometimes we make changes our bikes and convince ourselves after that fact that the change had a positive effect. Mental impression?

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The honest question to ask yourself is.......Are you turning/pushing the bike's geometry to it's absolute limit, or does your skill level have room to grow?

Me personally, I'm not that fast so clamps are not the answer to my lap times. Seat time is. Sometimes we make changes our bikes and convince ourselves after that fact that the change had a positive effect. Mental impression?

Good advice right there....Now if only half the guys out there would realize it!

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I put 22mm-offset triple clamps on my '09; there is no doubt that it now turns much better. I also put them on our '09 KX450F, same thing, much better turning. My 2011 KX250F comes stock with 22.5mm-offset triple clamps, they are staying stock, it turns just fine.

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I have experience with it all. I have tried everything from clamps*+no link, full stock, link**+no clamps, and clamps+link. You need both for it to work. The clamps alone make for very nervous front end, very twitchy on the fast stuff. Both link and clamps, is almost as good as link and no clamps. link and no clamps is extremely planted, and it works well on the 70+MPH desert we have out here, stock actually wasnt bad either, but the clamps and link gives good handling in the slower turns and what not. I personally think the link is the best part of the deal. it improved turning and stability more than any of the combos. Reason for this being is it gets rid of the stinkbug and plants the rear end so that it does not make turning nervous and unpredictable.

note:*22mm clamps, **PC Link)

My current setup now with both of these on, is I run the forks almost all the way down, and run 100mm sag. works perfectly. if you can find a good deal on ebay, buy it now, if not then dont.

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trail.jpg

I will say this DK, this is true, to a point, I notice that there is a curve to the stability side of this. the 22s are more stable up to a speed, then it starts going the other way, it teeder todders. I would say that anything above 50 or 55 is where more offset works, and below that the 24.5s suck at turning/have weird stability characteristics. the 22s are stable and turn well up to 50 but then they go evil and head the other way shortly after. If less offset had NO disadvantage I would run my clamps backwards...just sayin.

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I know you know about these bikes, and I am not sure what they report overseas, but EVERY manufacturer and every magazine tests in America says that the 22mm offset on the KX250F is for quicker turning. It is geometry and physics that is beyond my college education, but you can't get quicker turning and gain stability. The Kawasaki teams always changed to 22 or even 20 to offer better turning. Less offset of the triple clamps brings the front wheel in, making for quicker turning. More triple clamp offset pushes the forks out and makes it more stable. The offset of the forks, has an effect on the trail.

A few things I found: From MXA

1. A solution to the handling problem is to invest in 22mm offset aftermarket triple clamps. The handling becomes more precise and the front-end feels more planted, thanks to the increased trail.

2. Our solution in 2009 was the same as in 2008. Swap the stock triple clamps for 22mm offset clamps. This is what all of the factory Kawasaki riders run on their bikes. With more trail, the handling became precise and the front-end felt planted through the entire turn. We were also able to run 100mm of sag and return the fork leg height to 5mm (down from 9mm).

And nowhere in MXA´s text does it say you get "quicker turning" or "less high-speed stability" with less offset. It says it becomes more "planted" thanks to increased trail.

Trail is the reason why a bike continues to go straight even if you let go of the handlebars. More trail = more stability.

The calmed down and "more precise" handling helps the bike to complete a better turn, not make it quick, twitchy or give it super fast turn-in.

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Less offset is more stable at speeds. Less offset turns in quicker but more input is needed at the bars. More offset is less stable at speed. The bars are a little floppier and less input is needed to get the bike to turn. That doesn't mean more offset is unstable. It seems that slower tighter corner work better with more offset and faster turns work better with less offset. Think about the gap between an enduro bike and a supermoto and the terrain. There are a lot of setup issues that cause instability or head shake, going to less offset triples while more stable won't fix the underlying problem.

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Less offset is more stable at speeds. Less offset turns in quicker but more input is needed at the bars. More offset is less stable at speed. The bars are a little floppier and less input is needed to get the bike to turn. That doesn't mean more offset is unstable. It seems that slower tighter corner work better with more offset and faster turns work better with less offset. Think about the gap between an enduro bike and a supermoto and the terrain. There are a lot of setup issues that cause instability or head shake, going to less offset triples while more stable won't fix the underlying problem.

Finally someone on my side!:lol:

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I honestly think its all a hoax, and every bike should just have a stable chassis. Why would you want a bike to turn well? There is nothing you can do to make them stable, but you can do all this stuff to make them turn. I will put it to you this way, when you wipe out on a fast 70-80 mph desert run, you dont walk away from it, you dont, but if you crash while turning, thats like what 20mph? IDK why dont you tell me which one is better? I would rather crash every turn than crash once going 70+mph. IDK I guess I shouldnt be nagging, I do ride some of the most stable bikes made. (next to HusQVarna) If you want your bike to turn, get a steel frame. To me it seems like it isnt that hard, but I guess it is harder than that. these engineers designing these things honestly dont use the brain that god hath given them, or so it seems. Good luck with your findings, and hopefully you find something good in here.

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ASG, you crack me up with your constant conspiracy theories:lol:

We can debate this back and forth for a very long time, but basically my point is this:

LESS offset (most often 22mm on the 250f) will make it complete most turns better, but it will NOT be at the expense of high speed stability.

I perfectly understand why people get this backwards, but motorcycle geometry and handling is a complex matter, and I do not want to sound like I know everything about it´cause I don´t.

It´s kind of like thinking of rear sag and spring rates backwards, when you get a LOT of static sag, you think that you need a STIFFER spring, when the exact opposite is true. The too stiff spring makes you put very little preload on it to get 100mm of race sag, and results in a rear end that sits low and you can be misled into thinking you need an even stiffer spring.

Now why do Kawasaki NOT put these clamps on the bike to begin with? Good question, but they have a lot of test riders who seem to like it, and Kawasaki is free to build their bike as they seem fit. However they are inching closer every year, probably from consumer and media opinions.

Another aspect of having less offset is also that the weight of the fork tubes themself have a smaller radius and shorter way to travel when turning the bars. This will make the steering feel lighter, while the increase in trail will make it more planted, so there are lots of forces at work here.

Having less offset will make the wheelbase slightly shorter, but it will have a very small effect. A simple tightening of the chain will do almost as much.

The reason is that a silly millimeter has more effect on the small trail measurement, than on the much bigger wheelbase measurement.

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I understand the leverage, geometry, and position changes as well as I think I can. But I have been to all the above and back. seen it all, done it all, and I cant help but think that what stated above^^^ a few ago was true. I have tried running more sag and putting the forks up/down and the opposite of that, and I just find that the stock clamps with the PC link gave me the most stable most wanting to go straight and stay that way setup. I run the same very fast stretch of desert every time and I find that the stock was okay, the link only was terrific, and with both its kinda scary and very unpredictable. leave no doubt, I am not saying you are ENTIRELY wrong, facts are facts, but there is no denying my trials and failure setups. If you read my post up a ways I think you will find it true when I say this. the 24.5s in the slow stuff were very twitchy, liked to wander, would not turn or hold a line. the 22s do this, they allow for smooth turning that is consistent and true, they are very stable and planted at medium speeds, but on the faster stuff they bite back. I have my forks as far down as the law allows to compensate on the faster stuff, on the slow stuff it suffers, but the dirt is dry and loose so it helps when I am not MXing. the 24s were everywhere in the loose stuff but very predictable when going fast. The proof is in my pudding. My other post brings up a can of worms, that nobody here can really prove, I have a theory about it because of testing, but no real evidence of that exact thing. I know it works and thats what I stick to. I cant explain right now, but maybe if I were to have a rolling frame I could figure it out. Once you have proven yourself something mentally it is extremely hard for someone else to say that what happened wasnt right. If you havent read the other post... I think thats where the doubt gets thrown in the air.

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