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I have been scouring the internet on cardio facts and they are all over the map.

I'm 41 and I'm almost certain my max heart rate is 180 because after 15 minute warm up one day I slowly increased resistance on an elliptical until I couldn't take it anymore and after 7 minutes of this the highest HR I saw was 176.

What I have been doing for the last few months is 1hr on elliptical or treadmill at 135 bpm 5 days a week monday to friday. It's not too stressful and rather enjoy it and work up a good little sweat. Before I do my daily cardio I do a 10 min warm up on treadmill then an hour of weight lifting for strength. I alternate muscle groups upper and lower from mon to thurs. On Friday I do cardio for an hour but low intensity, 115 bpm, then do an hour class of body pump, 20-20-20 or boot camp which are all high rep non-stop workouts, they are not easy! I take weekends off to recoup.

I eat well and do not starve. I am 5'11 220lbs and would like to be 200 by spring. This is the routine I will follow from now till start of April when I will switch to high rep weight/cardio type training like the body-pump and boot camp classes and I will also start taking my HR from 135 to 170 in intervals while I do my cardio workouts in preparation for the end of may when the track opens.

Does any of this sound like I am over training or risk burning muscle away during cardio workouts? I ask because of what I have read on the net is all over the map and also considering my workouts I dont seem to be loosing fat content much if at all. I'm feeling better and gaining muscle... that's for certain but I still have a healthy layer of fat on me that I would like gone. One thing I dont do is eat breakfast enough.

Anyone care to shed some light or give tips or advice?

Thanks :lol:

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IMHO that seems to be a bit much. I work on cardio and strength (weights) but not on the same days. When I do my cardio days (run, eliptical, spin) I go all out on those. Same for weight training days. Never both in the same day. So I guess that is what you will have to gage. How hard are you working each element and are they on the same day? I really support interval training as well. Just SEEMS to be easier for me. I am sure it is just psycological though.

I will also add that I am a big proponent of compound movements when weight training. Squats (best), dead lifts, clean squat press, bent over rows, turkish get ups and wood choppers. All of these blast multiple muscle groups all at once. And they get your heart rate soaring. Curls, tricep extensions, leg curls and leg extentions are a waste of time, (Again, IMHO). I also believe that if I am in the gym more than an hour that I am waisting my time. I don't mess around when I am there. That is also why I choose to workout by myself. Fewer distractions.

Also, I do not believe that doing anything at 115 heart rate is "cardio". My understanding is that cardio work is sustained HR in the 70 - 90% of max HR for 20 mins or more. All that being said, your Friday workout looks good to me. Sounds challenging.

Also, now that you are "getting up there", (I am too. I'm 47 and a half, lol), REST or recovery time is equally important. If not more important.

In summary - Blast the cardio on cardio days. Blast the weights on strength days, recovery recovery recovery.

One more note - P90x - I have gone through three times with outstanding results.

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I have been scouring the internet on cardio facts and they are all over the map.

I'm 41 and I'm almost certain my max heart rate is 180 because after 15 minute warm up one day I slowly increased resistance on an elliptical until I couldn't take it anymore and after 7 minutes of this the highest HR I saw was 176.

What I have been doing for the last few months is 1hr on elliptical or treadmill at 135 bpm 5 days a week monday to friday. It's not too stressful and rather enjoy it and work up a good little sweat. Before I do my daily cardio I do a 10 min warm up on treadmill then an hour of weight lifting for strength. I alternate muscle groups upper and lower from mon to thurs. On Friday I do cardio for an hour but low intensity, 115 bpm, then do an hour class of body pump, 20-20-20 or boot camp which are all high rep non-stop workouts, they are not easy! I take weekends off to recoup.

I eat well and do not starve. I am 5'11 220lbs and would like to be 200 by spring. This is the routine I will follow from now till start of April when I will switch to high rep weight/cardio type training like the body-pump and boot camp classes and I will also start taking my HR from 135 to 170 in intervals while I do my cardio workouts in preparation for the end of may when the track opens.

Does any of this sound like I am over training or risk burning muscle away during cardio workouts? I ask because of what I have read on the net is all over the map and also considering my workouts I dont seem to be loosing fat content much if at all. I'm feeling better and gaining muscle... that's for certain but I still have a healthy layer of fat on me that I would like gone. One thing I dont do is eat breakfast enough.

Anyone care to shed some light or give tips or advice?

Thanks :)

You should (and should be able to) find a local college that has a human performance lab and have a LT (lactate threshold) and VO2 Max test run. These will give you a real point of reference to look back on as well as tell you were your starting from.

You WILL NOT burn fat by doing "cardio" OR intense workouts. You will really only burn fat after you've trained your body to do so. The way this is done is by BASE TRAINING, this is LOW HR work, arbitrary HR ceiling is 128 BPM, this means NO BREAKING 128 bpm for 8 WEEKS. This is due to blood pressure levels that CAN NOT be exceeded during this BASE training period. By keeping the BP down you will GROW capillaries through out your entire body. The fat you are trying to lose will come off during this 8 wk period as CARBS should be avoided like the plague during the 8 wks. By starving the body of it's fuel of choice (carbs) you are forcing the body to look else where for fuel. You can eat all the protein and higher fat items you want during BASE just no on the carbs. The primary goal of this training is to build low HR power, the more watts you produce at low HR the better, as it means that you can then build higher power output down the road on a solid foundation. There are many other gains as well such as higher VO2 max, quicker LT clearing, HIGHER LT ect. One last note during BASE you MUST stay in BASE for at least 8 wks, you can go longer, BUT the physical adaptations take 8 wks to take hold. Also each week during BASE you must increase the load and duration of your workouts. YOU CAN NOT BREAK YOUR HR CEILING!!!!! If you do you set yourself back 3 wks. PM me if you like.:lol:

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Thanks for the replies guys. I went and looked into P90X and that looks really good to me. I have been using the weight machines at the gym but am going to start the compound motion strength training. I was avoiding that area of the gym because of all the knuckle heads fawning over each others physiques while bellowing loudly on their iPhones making sure everyone is looking at them. I'm old; they aggravate me :lol:

I never even knew about base training. I just researched it and learned about fuel types and the changes that take place in the muscle and can understand how it is something that I need and want. Come may-june I want to be able to ride the best I can and I want to be in the best shape I have ever been in. I'll be on a 2012 KTM 150SX so I'm going to need the fitness to ring that thing out if I want to go fast... fast for me that is. I love personal challenges and this kind of thing is right up my alley.

So if I have it right I can not pass 70% of my max heart rate or I risk entering an anaerobic state? I can only guesstimate my MHR is around 180 because I set out to see how high I could get after reading an article on how to get it and from a calculator online I get 132-144 as 60%-70%. Not accurate I know but if even if I raise and lower the resting heart rate and max heart rates it doesnt change by a whole lot.

This is my new plan. Compound movement strength training mon-wed-fri and 135 bpm cardio for an hour on tues and thurs and weekends off to heal. Do this for 4 months as base training. (doesnt seem like enough cardio... maybe 1.5 hours twice a week?)

What do people think about that?

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You should (and should be able to) find a local college that has a human performance lab and have a LT (lactate threshold) and VO2 Max test run. These will give you a real point of reference to look back on as well as tell you were your starting from.

You WILL NOT burn fat by doing "cardio" OR intense workouts. You will really only burn fat after you've trained your body to do so. The way this is done is by BASE TRAINING, this is LOW HR work, arbitrary HR ceiling is 128 BPM, this means NO BREAKING 128 bpm for 8 WEEKS. This is due to blood pressure levels that CAN NOT be exceeded during this BASE training period. By keeping the BP down you will GROW capillaries through out your entire body. The fat you are trying to lose will come off during this 8 wk period as CARBS should be avoided like the plague during the 8 wks. By starving the body of it's fuel of choice (carbs) you are forcing the body to look else where for fuel. You can eat all the protein and higher fat items you want during BASE just no on the carbs. The primary goal of this training is to build low HR power, the more watts you produce at low HR the better, as it means that you can then build higher power output down the road on a solid foundation. There are many other gains as well such as higher VO2 max, quicker LT clearing, HIGHER LT ect. One last note during BASE you MUST stay in BASE for at least 8 wks, you can go longer, BUT the physical adaptations take 8 wks to take hold. Also each week during BASE you must increase the load and duration of your workouts. YOU CAN NOT BREAK YOUR HR CEILING!!!!! If you do you set yourself back 3 wks. PM me if you like.:lol:

This is for burning fat right? For endurance on the bike (1hour + GPs) what would you recommend? I've been doing between 30-60 min of high intensity cardio (155-180 bpm) 3-4 days a week, in addition to lifting.

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You should (and should be able to) find a local college that has a human performance lab and have a LT (lactate threshold) and VO2 Max test run. These will give you a real point of reference to look back on as well as tell you were your starting from.

You WILL NOT burn fat by doing "cardio" OR intense workouts. You will really only burn fat after you've trained your body to do so. The way this is done is by BASE TRAINING, this is LOW HR work, arbitrary HR ceiling is 128 BPM, this means NO BREAKING 128 bpm for 8 WEEKS. This is due to blood pressure levels that CAN NOT be exceeded during this BASE training period. By keeping the BP down you will GROW capillaries through out your entire body. The fat you are trying to lose will come off during this 8 wk period as CARBS should be avoided like the plague during the 8 wks. By starving the body of it's fuel of choice (carbs) you are forcing the body to look else where for fuel. You can eat all the protein and higher fat items you want during BASE just no on the carbs. The primary goal of this training is to build low HR power, the more watts you produce at low HR the better, as it means that you can then build higher power output down the road on a solid foundation. There are many other gains as well such as higher VO2 max, quicker LT clearing, HIGHER LT ect. One last note during BASE you MUST stay in BASE for at least 8 wks, you can go longer, BUT the physical adaptations take 8 wks to take hold. Also each week during BASE you must increase the load and duration of your workouts. YOU CAN NOT BREAK YOUR HR CEILING!!!!! If you do you set yourself back 3 wks. PM me if you like.:lol:

LISTEN to this guy. He knows what he's talking about:prof:

One of the best posts I've read in this forum.

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Thanks for the replies guys. I went and looked into P90X and that looks really good to me. I have been using the weight machines at the gym but am going to start the compound motion strength training. I was avoiding that area of the gym because of all the knuckle heads fawning over each others physiques while bellowing loudly on their iPhones making sure everyone is looking at them. I'm old; they aggravate me :lol:

I never even knew about base training. I just researched it and learned about fuel types and the changes that take place in the muscle and can understand how it is something that I need and want. Come may-june I want to be able to ride the best I can and I want to be in the best shape I have ever been in. I'll be on a 2012 KTM 150SX so I'm going to need the fitness to ring that thing out if I want to go fast... fast for me that is. I love personal challenges and this kind of thing is right up my alley.

So if I have it right I can not pass 70% of my max heart rate or I risk entering an anaerobic state? I can only guesstimate my MHR is around 180 because I set out to see how high I could get after reading an article on how to get it and from a calculator online I get 132-144 as 60%-70%. Not accurate I know but if even if I raise and lower the resting heart rate and max heart rates it doesnt change by a whole lot.

This is my new plan. Compound movement strength training mon-wed-fri and 135 bpm cardio for an hour on tues and thurs and weekends off to heal. Do this for 4 months as base training. (doesnt seem like enough cardio... maybe 1.5 hours twice a week?)

What do people think about that?

Look, forget your "new" plan. Its not going to get you anywhere. You need to train smarter.

I can attest to cardio training not working for me, and I'm young. I used to run 3-4 times a week high up in my bpm but still couldn't bust out 2 or 3 fast laps. I trained under 128 for a few weeks and immediately noticed improvement. Just listen what that guys says and I guarantee you will be praising him for the advice a few weeks from now. And the best part of this regimen is that its EASY.

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Thanks for the replies guys. I went and looked into P90X and that looks really good to me. I have been using the weight machines at the gym but am going to start the compound motion strength training. I was avoiding that area of the gym because of all the knuckle heads fawning over each others physiques while bellowing loudly on their iPhones making sure everyone is looking at them. I'm old; they aggravate me :)

I never even knew about base training. I just researched it and learned about fuel types and the changes that take place in the muscle and can understand how it is something that I need and want. Come may-june I want to be able to ride the best I can and I want to be in the best shape I have ever been in. I'll be on a 2012 KTM 150SX so I'm going to need the fitness to ring that thing out if I want to go fast... fast for me that is. I love personal challenges and this kind of thing is right up my alley.

So if I have it right I can not pass 70% of my max heart rate or I risk entering an anaerobic state? I can only guesstimate my MHR is around 180 because I set out to see how high I could get after reading an article on how to get it and from a calculator online I get 132-144 as 60%-70%. Not accurate I know but if even if I raise and lower the resting heart rate and max heart rates it doesnt change by a whole lot.

This is my new plan. Compound movement strength training mon-wed-fri and 135 bpm cardio for an hour on tues and thurs and weekends off to heal. Do this for 4 months as base training. (doesnt seem like enough cardio... maybe 1.5 hours twice a week?)

What do people think about that?

I would avoid P90X during the BASE phase, for a few reasons. (1) you will have a HARD time staying in BASE during the workout. TheP90X workouts are geared twards high intensity NOT low intensity. (2) 3D strength training (compound) is great and should be included in your routine BUT, and this is super important and often overlooked is what type of body/physic are you going for. MX/ENDURO guys should be going after a climbers body. SO find a local climbing gym and start doing traverses, slack-lining ect. MUCH more appropriate for riding, esp since there is also a added mental component. (3rd) Get yourself a NICE road bike (bicycle) and learn to love it! Here's why, we ride on two wheels, hey that's just like a bicycle ; ). Best scenario get the bike and get ROLLERS for indoor training. this will teach you a couple of things; to ride a LINE, to SPEED UP when in doubt. Skills that directly apply to ridin' your 150. :lol:

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This is for burning fat right? For endurance on the bike (1hour + GPs) what would you recommend? I've been doing between 30-60 min of high intensity cardio (155-180 bpm) 3-4 days a week, in addition to lifting.

Yes this will BURN fat. BUT remember you have to increase both durration and load EVERY WEEK OF BASE. AND no high intensity ANYTHING.

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I love the base period as I hate doing intervals, my problem is I never get out of the base period cuz I am a sisssy:blush:

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Look, forget your "new" plan. Its not going to get you anywhere. You need to train smarter.

I can attest to cardio training not working for me, and I'm young. I used to run 3-4 times a week high up in my bpm but still couldn't bust out 2 or 3 fast laps. I trained under 128 for a few weeks and immediately noticed improvement. Just listen what that guys says and I guarantee you will be praising him for the advice a few weeks from now. And the best part of this regimen is that its EASY.

I researched base training for a couple hours which is what was suggested to me and that is my new plan. No cardio past 60% which is around 132 bpm for me and compound strength training which is not high HR/intensity, I only mentioned I liked the look of P90X but would do compound movement stuff. I should have been more clear. From what I have learned so far you can incorporate compound movement type strength training into a cardio base training period where HR is not past 60%. If you know otherwise please share, I want to learn as much as I can.

- Watige420 - thanks for shedding light on base training and the effect it has on the body. This is exactly what I want and I have the time to do it before next season.

My goal is to get strong and lose some of the fat layer that I have. It seems that base training is exactly what I am looking for. I just want to make sure I have this aspect right... nothing past 135bpm during cardio or weight training?

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Something else I would recommend is interval training. You can do quick bursts of speed/intensity. If you're on the treadmill, I would start with a quick warmup (3-4 minutes), then do different intervals. I usually go back and forth between doing 30 second bursts to 45 second bursts with 30 seconds rest in between.

Something like:

30 seconds at 8.0 and 30 seconds at 3.7. for 10 minutes

45 seconds at 8.2 and 30 seconds at 3.7 for 10 minutes

60 seconds at 7.5 and 30 seconds at 3.7 for 10 minutes

It's a pretty good workout and definitely burns fat. I also do weights, which helps with metabolism, alternating days between legs and arms.

Good luck!

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Something else I would recommend is interval training. You can do quick bursts of speed/intensity. If you're on the treadmill, I would start with a quick warmup (3-4 minutes), then do different intervals. I usually go back and forth between doing 30 second bursts to 45 second bursts with 30 seconds rest in between.

Something like:

30 seconds at 8.0 and 30 seconds at 3.7. for 10 minutes

45 seconds at 8.2 and 30 seconds at 3.7 for 10 minutes

60 seconds at 7.5 and 30 seconds at 3.7 for 10 minutes

It's a pretty good workout and definitely burns fat. I also do weights, which helps with metabolism, alternating days between legs and arms.

Good luck!

Hi Awinter, thanks for the tips. Are those numbers the speed on the treadmill? If so I think the runs at 7.5 and up would easily have me out of base training heart rate. I'm still reading about base training and the changes that take place in the muscle and as far as I can figure out going past 70% of max HR is a bad thing while in this phase and that doing the interval stuff is introduced after a base has been established. I think anyway :lol: still trying to figure this all out.

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Hi Awinter, thanks for the tips. Are those numbers the speed on the treadmill? If so I think the runs at 7.5 and up would easily have me out of base training heart rate. I'm still reading about base training and the changes that take place in the muscle and as far as I can figure out going past 70% of max HR is a bad thing while in this phase and that doing the interval stuff is introduced after a base has been established. I think anyway :) still trying to figure this all out.

Well done grasshopper! You've got it. Also UNLIKE any and all other phases of training, BASE is cumulative you can build on it year after year. Meaning greater and greater power output at those same low HR numbers. This is part of the reason I recommended getting tested, that way you can have a baseline so you know were you're starting. Also remember that your training window is pretty small during BASE roughly 10 BPM (if your ceiling is 132BPM your basement is 122BPM).

Something I have my athletes do, if their job/school allows for it, is wear a weight vest. This helps expand the training hours, something that gets a bit tough at week 8 and above. Also remember that you will not have any top end after BASE this is something that gets built during high intensity work. While in BASE I would also recommend setting up a SLACK-LINE, amazing core workout.

To everyone out there looking at what to do to train for our 2 wheeled sport, just consider the needed skill set. Mentally, physically, emotionally, agility ect. then figure out cross training activities that compliment those skills. Hint you won't find the needed skills in a weight room.:lol:

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cardio burns calories while your exercising.

Weight training burns calories while your exercising and the rest of the day rebuilding muscle.

I did not lose weight from mtn biking, I lost it from weight training

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So true:

cardio burns calories while your exercising.

Weight training burns calories while your exercising and the rest of the day rebuilding muscle.

http://www.metaboliceffect.com/Topic/15-intelligent-exercise.aspx

Since weight loss and fat loss aren't the same, you're going to have to change the diet and eat for fat loss in addition to weight training....

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cardio burns calories while your exercising.

Weight training burns calories while your exercising and the rest of the day rebuilding muscle.

I did not lose weight from mtn biking, I lost it from weight training

VERY hard to maintain the correct load and duration on a MTN bike esp if MTN biking! MUCH easier and productive on a ROAD bike, simply because it's easier to maintain a load for as long as you want without a break OR a surge. If you don't follow the correct protocol you will not get the desired results. Plain and simple.

The reason I don't favor weight room work is that it's 2dimensional work and there are no other gains being gained. Think about what it takes to ride or RACE! Each limb is doing a dissimilar task, mind is having to fight off self preservation instincts, having to deal with a surplus of stimuli all while performing a 2 wheeled circus act.

MMA=good training Climbing= good training Cycling= good training Par-Kour (sp?) Free-Running= good training Trials= good training ALL of these sports hone not only strength, but also balance, prpreoception, mental toughness, timing, spacial awareness ALL at the same time. These are skills that each and every rider can benefit from.:lol:

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A big part of my goal is physique. Just want to gain some mass but at the same time I am doing my cardio only at 130bpm for an hour twice a week and the other 3 days I lift weights which is a mix of weight machines (bench press, forearms, hands, shoulders and back) and other times I do the compound stuff. I have to take it easy on my knees as I am battling Pettelafemoral syndrome right now so anything that is hard on my knees I avoid... squats with added weight ect..

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While I would tend to agree with the base training I don't have the time or discipline to follow that strict of a program. That would mean no MX, no soccer and no sex frankly. Ha ha. Get it? Elevated HR? But I digress.

I can only tell you what I did and how it affected my physical performance. I picked up the P90X program and got after it. Plain and simple. It was indeed an azz kicker. About week 7 I was HATIN'!! But I pushed through. My MX riding level jumped instantly. I believe it was directly proportional to my new found leg strength. It seemed liked I could go and go. And I was doing very little cardio at this time. Towards the end of the program I just decided to pick up some more cardio. I set a goal to be able to run a mile and a half in 10 minutes. I was able to reach that goal but the fact is I really do not LIKE to run so I went back and completed the P90x 2 more times.

Now my running is more for fun and the extra benefit is the cardio/fitness. I tend to do more spin for cardio now and have re-emphasized the weight training.

I am 47 yo and went from 206 to 185. Fortunately, I have never really had a problem with weight. I can pretty much eat what I want. BUT the other side of that is that when I play, I play HARD.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but does not weight training help with increasing bone density whereas cardio does not? Yes? No? That is good for us "older guys"

Edited by Datz a DRZ
spelling

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A big part of my goal is physique. Just want to gain some mass but at the same time I am doing my cardio only at 130bpm for an hour twice a week and the other 3 days I lift weights which is a mix of weight machines (bench press, forearms, hands, shoulders and back) and other times I do the compound stuff. I have to take it easy on my knees as I am battling Pettelafemoral syndrome right now so anything that is hard on my knees I avoid... squats with added weight ect..[/QUOTE]

I will share with you what I learned about squats and knee pain. If it hurts your knees you are doing them wrong. I hated squates for that very reason. Then I got some advice/teaching:thumbsup: from a pro. I was pushing with the balls of my feet instead of through my heels. You should be able to wiggle your toes throughout the entire movement. No more knee pain.

Again - I aint no doctor. This is only what I learned. There may indeed be something special about your condition there. Just my 3 cents.:lol:

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