200 PV unravelled, PART deux

[gmoss357]

As many know there is a 200 PV pictorial in the FAQ. It only covers the cylinder part of the system, however.

This is to help those that may need to access the lower assembly and shed some light on how this system works, which is good knowledge for me as I wasn't sure myself.

I will say that it is a fairly simple procedure.

To start, you will need to drain the fluids, oil and coolant. Pull the pipe, kickstarter, clutch cover, PV adjusting cover, and water pump housing.

Now you are ready to pull the inner clutch case. If you can save the gasket great, but wouldn't hurt to have a new clutch and inner case gasket on hand. Not a bad time to replace water pump O rings as well. Before removing the case, this is a good time to loosen the 8mm nut behind the PV adjusting cover. Note that the kickstart spring will likely pop loose when you pull the cover. Mine did and I will have to verify where it goes before reassembly since I haven't had that part off before. I believe I have it right, but will make sure.

Once off, you see how the timer and actuating arm are connected.

You have to remove the small cover where the arm is to push the bearing out enough to disengage the timer so it will come out.

Once the timer is out, you will notice some small washers and ferrell, don't lose them.

Here is the timer apart. As the engine speed increases, the balls are forced outward, expanding the upper part down toward the springs which then moves the actuating arm up, which then moves the PV assembly in the cylinder. I will say I don't see how the balls could come out while in the case, but I know it has happened. If you plan on taking the timer apart, the balls are a pain to get back in. The easiest way for me was to place the star part where the balls reside, upside down on the table, holding the rest of the assembly with the inner rod thru the hole in the star, dropping each ball into it's slot, spinning the star to access the next one. Hard to describe, but you will see that the balls will drop in the hole otherwise. Key is to keep it opened enough for the balls to drop in, while keeping the rod in the hole.

The retaining pin is not pictured.

I will post up any issues I have upon reassembly, which will happen later this week.

[KrAzyOSUcoWboY]

Very interesting, I'm curious how exactly this timing mechanism works exactly. From a practical standpoint is this an item that needs regular or semi-regular maintenance or is there an obvious symptom that indicates it could need service?

[Supertrunk]

Nice job!

Good pictorial and comments.

[maxamillion125]

Good job, the 200 pv is different from the 125/144 right?

[Mike in Fresno]

the centrifugal timer part of the system does not need regular maintenance. It works by way of the balls going up n down a ramp in the star shaped part as the motor gains and loses rpms. The balls can get stuck, but it is rare.

The part called the control lever is in the 4th pic and is the wear item spoken of in the Langston article. Ive had 3 200s and two of them had this part worn out. It is the stub piece sticking out in the hole with the washers. The tip of it gets egg shaped and then gets sloppy in the timer groove and doesnt transmit the movement of the balls n ramp properly to the linkage which drives the system to the cyl.

The timer can be adjusted for a later opening by placing a shim on the shaft to put more preload on the spring. Remember that turning the external adjuster only changes the flapper and ports start position, not the actual timing.

[gmoss357]

Good job, the 200 pv is different from the 125/144 right?

the timer has different springs(which is what is prompting this experiment), the cylinder parts are different as well.

[SkiDaddy]

?

[jersey_devil]

Good job gmoss.

[gmoss357]

?

aw shucks.

It's not Supertrunk good, but glad to do it for those you can use it.

[gmoss357]

Good job, the 200 pv is different from the 125/144 right?

wanted to say that the way they work are the same.

[150sx93]

Hello gmoss and friends hope you can help, i have a awful rattle since replacing the right side casing, the timer did fall apart and I'm sure I've put it back together right, I've took it back apart and when I shake the timer you can hear the balls slightly rattling. should it rattle? Any help will be appreciated ?

[froste]

I recently purchased a 2011 XCW and discovered this great site dedicated to the 200.  Thank you for such a great resource.  I didn't feel the bike was running properly so I started experimenting with the carb jetting with no luck.  After doing some research on this site, I started checking the exhaust control mechanism and discovered a couple problems.

When viewing the control shaft segment from the left side cover, I noticed it wasn't moving with the increase in engine RPMs.  In fact, it was rotated all the way forward holding the exhaust valves and control flap in the wide-open position.  I removed the cap on the right side and began turning the adjuster counterclockwise to rotate the control shaft segment back to within the operating range indicated by the notches on the sheet metal guide which secures the control shaft segment.  Once adjusted properly, the cap would not thread all the way to the side cover housing.  Instead, it bottomed out on the end of the adjuster and began turning the adjuster in, thereby changing the position of the control shaft segment.

I pulled the cylinder and removed the front cover to find the teeth on the control shaft segment were not indexed properly on the gears of the control shafts and eccentric crank bolt.  One or two of them were a tooth off in the advanced position.  I cleaned and reassembled everything properly but still could not get the adjuster on the right side set properly.

I pulled the right-side engine cover off and removed the centrifugal timer from the cover.  I quickly noticed the star-shaped end piece was not seated in it's cup and the ball bearings were visible and rattling around.  There were two balls occupying the same space in one of the tracks.  The tension was too great to remove the pin holding everything together or to rotate the end piece by hand.  I ended up rotating the end piece by tapping it with a rubber mallet until it moved the rogue ball bearing around to the empty track.  Once rotated, the end piece dropped down over the ball bearings, seated against the cup and everything was tight; no rattles.  I reassembled everything on the right side and it appears all is well.  I'm able to adjust the control shaft segment within the range of operation and the end cap will thread onto the adjuster with enough free space to tighten against the engine cover.  Hope this helps someone else resolve this issue. 

[Shuey70]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2011 at 10:19 PM, gmoss357 said:

As many know there is a 200 PV pictorial in the FAQ. It only covers the cylinder part of the system, however.

This is to help those that may need to access the lower assembly and shed some light on how this system works, which is good knowledge for me as I wasn't sure myself.

I will say that it is a fairly simple procedure.

To start, you will need to drain the fluids, oil and coolant. Pull the pipe, kickstarter, clutch cover, PV adjusting cover, and water pump housing.

Now you are ready to pull the inner clutch case. If you can save the gasket great, but wouldn't hurt to have a new clutch and inner case gasket on hand. Not a bad time to replace water pump O rings as well. Before removing the case, this is a good time to loosen the 8mm nut behind the PV adjusting cover. Note that the kickstart spring will likely pop loose when you pull the cover. Mine did and I will have to verify where it goes before reassembly since I haven't had that part off before. I believe I have it right, but will make sure.

Once off, you see how the timer and actuating arm are connected.

You have to remove the small cover where the arm is to push the bearing out enough to disengage the timer so it will come out.

Once the timer is out, you will notice some small washers and ferrell, don't lose them.

Here is the timer apart. As the engine speed increases, the balls are forced outward, expanding the upper part down toward the springs which then moves the actuating arm up, which then moves the PV assembly in the cylinder. I will say I don't see how the balls could come out while in the case, but I know it has happened. If you plan on taking the timer apart, the balls are a pain to get back in. The easiest way for me was to place the star part where the balls reside, upside down on the table, holding the rest of the assembly with the inner rod thru the hole in the star, dropping each ball into it's slot, spinning the star to access the next one. Hard to describe, but you will see that the balls will drop in the hole otherwise. Key is to keep it opened enough for the balls to drop in, while keeping the rod in the hole.

The retaining pin is not pictured.

I will post up any issues I have upon reassembly, which will happen later this week.

Gmoss357 When you pulled the timer off the Inner clutch cover. Is the Ferrell a small black looking washer?

[Shuey70]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2011 at 10:19 PM, gmoss357 said:

As many know there is a 200 PV pictorial in the FAQ. It only covers the cylinder part of the system, however.

This is to help those that may need to access the lower assembly and shed some light on how this system works, which is good knowledge for me as I wasn't sure myself.

I will say that it is a fairly simple procedure.

To start, you will need to drain the fluids, oil and coolant. Pull the pipe, kickstarter, clutch cover, PV adjusting cover, and water pump housing.

Now you are ready to pull the inner clutch case. If you can save the gasket great, but wouldn't hurt to have a new clutch and inner case gasket on hand. Not a bad time to replace water pump O rings as well. Before removing the case, this is a good time to loosen the 8mm nut behind the PV adjusting cover. Note that the kickstart spring will likely pop loose when you pull the cover. Mine did and I will have to verify where it goes before reassembly since I haven't had that part off before. I believe I have it right, but will make sure.

Once off, you see how the timer and actuating arm are connected.

You have to remove the small cover where the arm is to push the bearing out enough to disengage the timer so it will come out.

Once the timer is out, you will notice some small washers and ferrell, don't lose them.

Here is the timer apart. As the engine speed increases, the balls are forced outward, expanding the upper part down toward the springs which then moves the actuating arm up, which then moves the PV assembly in the cylinder. I will say I don't see how the balls could come out while in the case, but I know it has happened. If you plan on taking the timer apart, the balls are a pain to get back in. The easiest way for me was to place the star part where the balls reside, upside down on the table, holding the rest of the assembly with the inner rod thru the hole in the star, dropping each ball into it's slot, spinning the star to access the next one. Hard to describe, but you will see that the balls will drop in the hole otherwise. Key is to keep it opened enough for the balls to drop in, while keeping the rod in the hole.

The retaining pin is not pictured.

I will post up any issues I have upon reassembly, which will happen later this week.

Also what order do the washers and Ferrell go?     TIMER   WASHER WASHER FERRELL INNER CLUTCH COVER       OR

                                                                                 TIMER   FERRELL WASHER WASHER INNER CLUTCH COVER

[Bron-Yr-Aur]

1 hour ago, Shuey70 said:

Also what order do the washers and Ferrell go?     TIMER   WASHER WASHER FERRELL INNER CLUTCH COVER       OR

                                                                                 TIMER   FERRELL WASHER WASHER INNER CLUTCH COVER

Are you by chance in SW PA?

Gmoss is hardly here anymore. But he frequents KTMTalk regularly. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Bron-Yr-Aur

[Bron-Yr-Aur]

This is from RMATV OEM parts fiche...

[Shuey70]

No but im there a lot. im from SE Ohio but live in Central Ohio, I just found that myself. Thank you! I talked to GMOSS over on KTMtalk about an hour ago

[Bron-Yr-Aur]

11 hours ago, Shuey70 said:

No but im there a lot. im from SE Ohio but live in Central Ohio, I just found that myself. Thank you! I talked to GMOSS over on KTMtalk about an hour ago

Ah ok. There’s a moto/bike repair shop here in Windber and your name is the same as his shop, so of course I had to ask