California FOJ Fencing EP15

[cutaccross2]

The BLM has a survey crew redoing the routes. Will they do them all? or will they just do the open signed routes? What is their criteria? Ive seen maps that dont even show dual sport routes that our club did with a permit. Many routes are missing on their interim maps that BLM put out after they signed everything.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/cdd/west_mojave__wemo/wemo_maps.html. Click on a sub-region to view it.

[Neversurfaced]

The BLM has a survey crew redoing the routes. Will they do them all? or will they just do the open signed routes? What is their criteria? Ive seen maps that dont even show dual sport routes that our club did with a permit. Many routes are missing on their interim maps that BLM put out after they signed everything.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/cdd/west_mojave__wemo/wemo_maps.html. Click on a sub-region to view it.

Obviously the ink isn't dry yet, but what's your "gut" on the direction things are headed. As you've mentioned, you put a lot of time and effort into this, do you think it will be rewarded?

[Wayne_Nosala]

The re inventory of the routes has nothing to do with BLM, it was ordered by the

9th circuit judge to redo the inventory, Reason. the decision process on what

we have now was challenged by the plaintiffs.

The BLM was also given a very small time frame to sign open all the legal trails in the current WEMO inventory

hence the reason all the new fiber signs we are see now, Per Judges order

The biggest part we won on this whole lawsuit is CBD and others wanted licence

plate only in limited use classified lands, we won on that one.

There is much more,but I dont gather many care here

Wayne

Edited December 13, 2011 by Wayne_Nosala

[Neversurfaced]

I count you chief amongst the disenfranchised, Wayne. I think you know I'm always interested in what you have to say on the subject. Enlighten me please.

[realfun1]

x2 Im rather new to this . Im interested along with my posse of riders. Thanks for any info you might have to enlighten us newer riders.

[dogggmann]

fire hydrant caps are made of plastic.

[cutaccross2]

fire hydrant caps are made of plastic.

Before the age of plastic they where brass.

I have this feeling. Its been bad since 1970 and its just going to get worse with energy now in the picture.

[Beyond The Pale]

The way the system works is only the routes on the final maps are legal. If you don't tell them about your favorite ST then it will not make it on the map. Yes, it's a case of "your damned if you do and damned if you don't," but if you don't bring up the routes they have no chance at all.

I've got to say that I'm not real positive on this whole WEMO re-examination. Hell didn't it all start from a case where the anti's claimed that there were too many routes.

All I can say is ride while you can and don't give up without a fight.

[SlimJim 4fiddy]

The 25% of the fund used for law enforcement pays for dirt bikes... radios... trailers and trucks to get the dirt bikes and radios to riding areas... hours for cops that could be setting up speed traps or catching real crooks. The Federal Gov and State Gov and Volunteers like FOJ all get these grants from the fund. With most of the money going to signage... restoration projects (trail closing)... law enforcement... studies to decide if and where to give us a pit toilet or picnic table it is hard to see much good in all of it.

The most substantial thing that actually enhances trail opportunities is the volunteer trail work we all do. But our volunteer hours are tabulated... an hourly rate applied... and the total dollars are used by the .GOVs and .ORGs as matching dollars to get more money from the fund... so for every $100 worth of effort I give... I get $25 worth of cops on dirt bikes managing me... and another $25 worth of fences and trail closure signs posted.

Maybe if we just worked quietly on our trails and didn't join any .ORGs we could have nice trails without funding our own cops to chase us off the trails we build and maintain. I have met some cool people inside the machine that give me hope from time to time... but I'll never figure out what the right thing to do is... and I too feel completely disenfranchised much of the time.

[bajataxi]

The 25% of the fund used for law enforcement pays for dirt bikes... radios... trailers and trucks to get the dirt bikes and radios to riding areas... hours for cops that could be setting up speed traps or catching real crooks. The Federal Gov and State Gov and Volunteers like FOJ all get these grants from the fund. With most of the money going to signage... restoration projects (trail closing)... law enforcement... studies to decide if and where to give us a pit toilet or picnic table it is hard to see much good in all of it.

The most substantial thing that actually enhances trail opportunities is the volunteer trail work we all do. But our volunteer hours are tabulated... an hourly rate applied... and the total dollars are used by the .GOVs and .ORGs as matching dollars to get more money from the fund... so for every $100 worth of effort I give... I get $25 worth of cops on dirt bikes managing me... and another $25 worth of fences and trail closure signs posted.

Maybe if we just worked quietly on our trails and didn't join any .ORGs we could have nice trails without funding our own cops to chase us off the trails we build and maintain. I have met some cool people inside the machine that give me hope from time to time... but I'll never figure out what the right thing to do is... and I too feel completely disenfranchised much of the time.

Bolt, what happened with that new trail in Big Bear you were working on?

[bobc1]

Any group that begins with "Friends of...." is comprised of a do-gooder bunch with a lot of geezers thrown in that want their life's worth increased in their own minds by controlling everyone else's.

How about allow all types of public use of public lands?

[cutaccross2]

Any group that begins with "Friends of...." is comprised of a do-gooder bunch with a lot of geezers thrown in that want their life's worth increased in their own minds by controlling everyone else's.

Hogwash, Friends where started to keep BLM from running rampart over the land. It was started with good intentions but BLM has turned them into a tool for grants.

[bobc1]

How did BLM force FOJ into their current position, i.e., $200K for auger trucks to close trails, etc.?

[cutaccross2]

BLM told Ed people where getting off the trails and to do something or they would close the area. You got to remember, the land surrounding Jawbone and Dove Springs is a ACEC ( Area of Critical Environmental Concern) and if it shows new routes they can close it. The area extends to Kelso valley road and Bird Springs road and hwy.14. Hence all the signs.

[SlimJim 4fiddy]

BLM told Ed people where getting off the trails and to do something or they would close the area. You got to remember, the land surrounding Jawbone and Dove Springs is a ACEC ( Area of Critical Environmental Concern) and if it shows new routes they can close it. The area extends to Kelso valley road and Bird Springs road and hwy.14. Hence all the signs.

The point is Ridgecrest BLM doesn't have the man power or money to facilitate and enforce any wide spread closure without the resources of FOJ. There is a very reasonable argument to be made that if there had NEVER been an FOJ that closures would be nothing more than lines on a map in a Ridgecrest Gov office with little on the ground impact to riders. No one involved with FOJ wants to hear that point of view after millions of dollars and thousands of man hours have been spent. It's unknowable... but a curious thought.

[SlimJim 4fiddy]

Bolt, what happened with that new trail in Big Bear you were working on?

Is a few trails. Not dead. Just takes a LOOOONG time. Supposed to be in the 2012 list of FS todos to get this done. If it happens I expect 2013 for tires on new trails. (Which are really just existing trails not currently in the official system.)

Also trying to get 3n14 from 2n01 to Redonda Ridge (1w17) reopened to green sticker too.

[Countdown]

The point is Ridgecrest BLM doesn't have the man power or money to facilitate and enforce any wide spread closure without the resources of FOJ. There is a very reasonable argument to be made that if there had NEVER been an FOJ that closures would be nothing more than lines on a map in a Ridgecrest Gov office with little on the ground impact to riders. No one involved with FOJ wants to hear that point of view after millions of dollars and thousands of man hours have been spent. It's unknowable... but a curious thought.

You are 1,000% correct but totally wrong on "with little on the ground impact to riders", and the next steps.

Riders would keep riding on closed trails adn probably making new ones.

The CBD would then go back to court and have lots and lots of photo proof the OHVers won't stay on marked open trails. They would ask for total closure of the area.

Judge would probably come down in the middle and go back to their last request and ban all Green Sticker vehicles from the area since jeeps and other street legal vehicles have not been shown to be the violators.

[Countdown]

How did BLM force FOJ into their current position, i.e., $200K for auger trucks to close trails, etc.?

FOJ doesn't close any trails, they have no authority to make any open/closed decisions. FOJ only put up signs and barriers on trails that were never Open as directed by the BLM.

[BDM]

+1 on what Countdown is saying. It would be illegal for FOJ or any one else to sign as closed or physically block access to any route designated as open by the BLM travel management plan unless by emergency BLM or court order.

It is far, far easer for the BLM to enforce a total area closure than to manage a limited access area. Push the BLM into a corner by illegal riding and they could opt to close entire areas to OHV use.

Bruce

[SlimJim 4fiddy]

Is a trail closed when a bureaucrat draws a line on a map... or is it closed when 2 guys in an auger equipped F350 bore holes and sink posts into the earth to build a barricade ?

Trails in and around JB & Dove were closed in the 80s. Nothing much was done by BLM in signage, barricades or enforcement. Many, if not most ohvers, thought those trails were open until green sticker grant money paid FOJ to sign & barricade decades later. BLM didn't shove this money down FOJs throat. FOJ applied to the state for it... got it.... and pro-actively CLOSED DOWN those trails for real. Previously it was a legal concept. FOJ and green sticker dollars made it an on the ground reality.

Part of me thinks that volunteer groups enabled by green fund money are kinda like unions. They have taken on a life of their own no longer serving the body they represent. Not so different from our derailed gov that seeks to impose on the folks that they are supposed to serve. I am ready for the experiment that is coming: "no more green funds". The feds will have to stop taking money from CA tax payers to pad BLM and Forest Serv budgets. FOJ and others will have to get back to volunteering like the old days... picking up trash by hand and leaving the govs business to the gov which will have no resources to bother a few dirt bikes wandering the vast and isolate desert.

Edited December 17, 2011 by BOLT Performance