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2009 XCF 450 not starting. :-(

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Okay here is the facts. It has a clean functioning carb, fresh gas and a good spark. It won't even turn over when using starting fluid. It just cranks and cranks until the battery dies, if I let it. It ran fine the last time I rode it in February, before I had knee surgery and was started a few times in between this issue. I've even check the timing just in case it jumped on the chain. Everything appears normal. Any info people may have on this, please share. The only other thing I can think of is a possible issue with the ECU perhaps?

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You'll find that these things can be a pain in the ass come winter time. I tore my 08 450 down about a month ago and in between then, I picked up a 350. I swapped out my fancy Shorai battery from the 450 to the 350 and left the 350 battery sit over the past month (cold here in Ut). So this afternoon I finish the 450, hit the button and the bike doesn't even want to turn over. I jump the bike with my car and get it lit (but, it didn't want to go easy and is still funny?- I'm going to post about this). Anyways, I think the stator on the sxf bike is very weak and you need a good battery to get these things to light. If your battery wasn't on a tender, that's probably your culprit.

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Open your carb back up (after going to a Honda or Yamaha dealer and purchasing a jet , as KTM does not give options on this jet , but all the parts for FCR carbs from any other brand will fit) , in the bottom of the carb (not the bowl) there are 3 jets , 1 is the Main ,1 is the Pilot ,1 is the Start Jet

, that is the jet you want to replace **it is the small stubby jet** not the small hexed one , not the long skinny one (i just went thru this so this is why i am suggesting this) , replace that jet (it should be a #85) with the one purchased , the one for the Yamaha and/or Honda will be either a #70 or #72 , put it in , turn your fuel screw to about 2 1/2 , and the bike should start right up

Also as noted , make sure the battery is 100% up , also make sure you are only running 10/40 oil or lighter , no thicker , or it makes the engine turn over slower

For some reason this is only a issue when the temps drop below 45 degree's , we are at mid 30's here , and it took countless phone calls to James Dean from JD Jetting to figure this out , as numerous jetting changes with the main and pilot did not make much difference , also the colder it is the richer the bike needs to be

If it does not fix the issue you are only about about $9 and some of your time

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Battery isn't a problem. It's been on a tender. It has been cold here in California. I hope this jetting problem will resolve it. I'll give it a shot. Question for 450x....I was eliminating any possible jetting issue due to the fact that it wouldn't even attempt to start with starting fluid! I'm guessing you've had the same issues? This is the first winter it's acted up also. Like you said, I'm only out a few bucks....so far!

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If it has set since Feb with fuel in the carb there could be all kinds of gumbo in there. Especially with this crap ethanol fuel they are selling now.

I went through my whole carb just recently because my 505 was not idling very well. I would try to adjust the idle and it would either run real fast or real slow. I would get it to the right idle speed and then if I blipped the throttle it would run fast. Turn it down and then it would idle real low.

Anyway after going through the whole thing and thinking it was "clean" it still did the same thing.

So I read up on the whole Ethanol thing and how it has been creating issues in small engines. We have had E-10 here in Utah for about a year and half now. I read about a stabilizers and some positive feedback about Startron Starbrite

37060021.jpg

Not only is it a stabilizer but I guess it also cleans the system.

So I went to Wal-Mart in the boating department of sporting goods and bought a bottle. I drained my tank and mixed the Startron in with some fresh gas as per their directions. Put this freshly treated fuel in my bikes tank and went for a ride.

Well after I had used about a half of tank my bike started to have a high idle. I stopped and adjusted and this time the adjustments worked as expected. The idle that I set it to was the idle it would return to after blipping the throttle. So I am thinking this stuff cleared out tiny junk that I could not see or get to during my normal "cleaning". I now add it to all my gas.

This is not a paid endorsement. I am sure the other stabilizer products out there do just as nice a job.

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The carb is clean and functional. No build up in the bowl or jets. In fact, I always drain the carb if I know I'm not going to ride it for awhile. Thanks though.

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Yes my issue (well not really mine , as its a friends bike) started as soon as the temps dropped into the lower 50's then really became prevalent when the temps went into the 40's , the bike is a 2011 with about 25 hours on it , we ride the tracks just about every weekend so the bike has not been sitting with bad gas , in fact he mixes premium with Av gas , and rarely does the bike sit for longer than 2 weeks (he is a truck driver so he is gone a lot but usually home on weekends , so i usually work on the bikes in between rides)

We tried fresh gas , we tried larger jets (which helped to some degree , but it would still run the battery down) , we even tried the new Shorai battery , it even ran that down trying to start , in the process of elimination we determined that both my bikes (02 CRF450R and 06 CRF450X) both started easily weather it was 80 or 30 degrees outside , so we used my 450X as a donor of sorts and started removing carb parts one by one

We started with the pilot jet , the bike started slightly better but nothing to write home about , usually after 3 or more complete rundowns of the battery

Then we tried the main jet , it helped again , but still left the battery drained several times , then after numerous conversations with James Dean from JD Jetting , did the topic of the Start Jet come up , i had always noticed there were 3 jets , but i never knew what the little one was for , then James said it was a Starting jet , and it and the pilot are pretty much what control starting along with the leak jet and fuel screw , all have to work together to get the bike to start when the temp drops , as that has a dramatic effect on air/fuel mixture and if the mix is not right , the bike will simply not start until it is warmed up , as that was the issue , once the bike finally did start , it would start every time the button was hit , but let it cool down for a few hours in the cold , and nothing , not even a pop , when it was 60+ pull the choke , hit the button and the bike would come to life , we have been fighting this for over a month , when the temps in the day were under 50 , to the point that at the track we sometimes had to pull start the bike for the initial fire up , then once the bike had run , it started flawlessly thru out the day

Like i said , no guarantee's , but i think its worth a shot , the bike still slightly struggles , to start when cold (its in the 30's on average all day here) , but it will start without killing the battery now , so that is a plus , we thought it was the exhaust as he had put on aftermarket pipes , during this time , but with the stock system it always started , but it did still struggle , but as the temp continued to drop it was harder and harder to get the bike to start but it always eventually started , but after several charging s , till the exhaust was changed , that i think was because of the jetting being wrong for colder temps , in combination of a aftermarket exhaust that leans the bike more , it was a double issue , but hopefully this will solve , or at least help with your issue

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In any of these posts I do not hear mention of anyone adjusting the fuel screw to overcome this problem. That usually is enough to get my 505 to start when the temps drop. Also giving it a few twists of the throttle when it is really cold gets her going everytime.

She fired up in 25 degree temp last Wednesday no problem. That is without changing jets from what I was running in the summer. Just a 1/4 turn out on the fuel screw and three twists of the throttle before starting.

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Went from 1 turn to 3 turns , as well as no throttle , 1 pump , 2 pumps , 3 pumps ,4 pumps , up to 6 pumps , no difference in starting at all

And you are talking about starting with the E-Start correct ?? (the 11 SXF has no kick start back-up)

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And you are talking about starting with the E-Start correct ?? (the 11 SXF has no kick start back-up)

Yes my 505 is e-start only.

So did you conclude that the start jet was plugged or not the correct size?

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From what James Dean said , was , if my Honda's started and the KTM would not , then because of the temp change What KTM has for Start jet must only be good for warmer temps (50+ degree's), the KTM needed to be the same as the Honda (i am guessing smaller , because stock KTM is a #85 and stock Honda 450X is a #70 , stock Honda 450R is a #72, so they are jetted almost identical now (the KTM now has the #70 out of my 450X) , My 02 starts in 1-2 kicks , my 450X starts by choking , hitting the throttle a few blips , then hitting the button and it will start right up 20 degree's or 100 degree's

And no it was not plugged

Jetting is as follows

Elevation 500-1500

2011 KTM 450SXF

*jetting that seems to work after trying everything leaner and richer , and OK'd by James Dean*

Main: 185

Pilot: 48

Needle: JD Blue 3rd clip

Start Jet: #70 (was #85)

Fuel Screw 2 1/2

Recommended jetting for same elevation is

Main: 182

Pilot: 42

Needle: JD Blue 3rd clip

Start Jet n/a

Fuel Screw: 1 1/2

My Honda's are jetted

06 CRF450X

Main: 178

Pilot: 48

Needle: Stock 4th clip

Start Jet: #70

Fuel Screw: 3 turns

02 CRF450R

Main: 180

Pilot: 48

Needle: Stock 4th clip

Start Jet: #72

Fuel Screw: 3 turns

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Not a jetting, fuel delivery issue. Tried several starting procedures. Choke, no choke, throttle, no throttle, a twist here, a twist there, etc. I've even heated up my garage to 70 degrees to eliminate the cold weather issue! Has a spark. Good spark! Motor is timed correctly and valves are good. Having said that, again, any other experiences out there similar to mine? I'd pull my hair out at this point, if I didn't shave it already! Guess I'll be riding my Honda (which starts without any twists of the throttle and without the choke) until I get the KTM to the dealer.

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If your battery voltage is reasonably good while trying to start, I would guess compression.... valves or ring.. getting ready to look at my 09. My bike starts really poor when 30-mid 40s degrees, if the battery is not top notch it will not start. Push starting usually pops it off, but is not easy to do.

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