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Montesa 315r Parts compatibility.

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I thought I'd share the fruits of a couple of hours of research I did. I was looking for oil seals and going crazy trying to find the right ones online. Jim Sandiford has the crank seals, and the water side water pump seal, but I couldn't find any of the others. Turns out those lazy (Smart?) guys over at Honda use the same seals for the water pump, kickstart, and shift shaft as they do in their CR125! The water pump bearing is a standard 16001 (12x28x7) and is also used as the water pump bearing in the CR250. The crank bearing is a 62/28 (28x58x16) and I believe they use this one in many of their 4x4 wheel bearing assemblies although I'm not sure about the shield configurations. These should be easy enough to come by though.

The output shaft seal was a little more tricky. It is a 20x34x6 with a dust wiper. APPARENTLY, it is used in the 2001 XR200's transmission, but few places seem to carry that part for whatever reason... It also appears as if they use it in some of their lawnmowers and other lawn equipment.

I couldn't find any replacements for the crank seals as they are odd sizes and I'm pretty sure they are made out of Viton rather than Nitrile for heat and gasoline resistance. I can get these from Sandford, (and probably any other Montesa parts dealer) but they are pricey at $30 and $73 USD each... ouch! I'm hoping that the $73 one is a typo on their site, I sent them an email.

Anyway, here are the part numbers for Montesa in orange and Honda in red:

Shift shaft: 91203-KA4-772 91203-KK3-830

Kick shaft: 91205-KA3-712 91205-KA3-712 <<Same part number!

Water pump Water side: 91211-KA3-761 91211-KA3-761 <<Same part number!

Water pump Oil side: 91201-148-003 91201-965-000 EDIT: Apparently, this one has been superseded so the Montesa part should be the same as the Honda one.

Output shaft: 91201-896-701 91201-896-701 < same, but for Lawnmower? 91201-446-004 <2001 XR200 transmission

Water Pump bearing: 91001-KA4-003 Same number, used on many Honda water pumps.

Most of these parts you can probably get at your local Honda dealer, Motosport (they don't carry the output shaft one for some reason...) the TT store, or probably any other OEM parts dealer. I think Ron Ayers had pretty good prices on most of them.

Edited by 762SPR

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thanks for the info there.At this time I plan on keeping my 315r around for while can't really afford a new trials bike,the 315r suits me fine for my application so the more info the better,maybe we should start a sticky for us monty owners!Yeah right!!:bonk:

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Thanks for the info. Montesa for some reason, while using Honda parts, assigns Montesa part numbers which make it difficult to find parts in the US.

The good news is Honda often provides physical info in the part description for seals and bearings which allows finding 3rd party substitutes.

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Yes, without them providing the dimensions for the seals I never would have found them! I can't stand the fact that even though all the parts come in little "Honda" marked baggies, that if you go to a HONDA dealer you can't get HONDA parts!. I was pretty surprised though when some of the part numbers were the same, especially the fact that my trials bike's output seal is the exact same part number as on someone's lawnmower!:bonk:

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Thanks for the info. Montesa for some reason, while using Honda parts, assigns Montesa part numbers which make it difficult to find parts in the US.

The good news is Honda often provides physical info in the part description for seals and bearings which allows finding 3rd party substitutes.

Sorry Chuck but Montesa never has tried to make it difficult to get parts in the US. Parts compatibility with Honda was always a plus for Montesa.

There is a very easy way to tell which parts are Honda. If the middle three digits start with NN them its a part specific to Montesa. For example: if its NN4 then its a Montesa (Cota 4RT) part. If its NN3 then its a Montesa (Cota 315 part). Anything else is a Honda part. Montesa uses all Honda hardware: nuts, bolts, bearings, seals and much more. This stuff is all available through your local Honda dealer.

Don't expect you local Honda dealer to know this. Just get the part number out of your Montesa owners manual or off the online manual http://www.overlandtrail.biz/Montesa%20315R%20Parts.htm and order it.

Edited by otpi1

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The part issues are not Honda it is Honda USA who has exclusive market control for the US market. They do not import Montesa and I bet they will not have inventory to fill orders for any parts that are not used on bikes that they imported.

The good news is that a lot of Honda parts will fit a Montesa in spite of the part numbers difference. We as a community just need to share the results of our research.

An example is the clutch on the 315R and the 4RT, plates and discs have different part numbers but the clutch is a common Honda item used on CR125/250, XR500, several CBRs, etc. Honda uses a variety of friction materials (sometimes in the same clutch) plus a variety of plate thicknesses. Here is my research:

Frictions:

4RT

2ea #22201-KY2-000 marked “FP MN4 5” (KY2 is the Product code for the 88 CBR400R2, MN4 is the Product code for 85-88 CBR600F)

4ea #22201-MEL-000 marked “FP MN4 5” (MEL is the Product code for the 94 CBR1000R)

315R

4 each #22201-NN1-000 marked “FP KA4 12” (KA4 is the Product code for 81-85 CR250R)

Plates:

4RT: 5 each #22321-MG3-000

315R: 6 each #22351-MG3-000 (MG3 is the Product code for 83-84 XR500R)

My 315R has the smoothest and easiest to control clutch of any bike I've owned, my friend's 4RT has what I consider a terrible clutch that grabs and judders. He has tried aftermarket clutches without much improvement. Some have suggested using CR125 discs because they are dimpled to hold oil, others have strongly suggested replacing plates and discs with CR250 parts.

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Back to the OP's questions:

Metric bearings have a 4 or 5 digit code for the size, sometimes with suffix and prefix for special features. If the bearing number is followed by a /## such as /26 (which indicates a special ID of 26mm), the bearing probably is not available from 3rd parties so you will have to pay 5 prices from a Honda dealer. see http://www.smbbearings.com/Popular_Metric_Bearings.htm for more bearing data

The good news is Honda/Montesa usually lists the size or code in the part description. If the item is a metric standard item the part number will often be in the "Honda Standards" format with the code in the part number.

I've been able to source most bearings and seals from bearing supply houses but crank bearings sometimes have special sizes so you may need to buy Honda. If you can find standard metric bearings there is one more issue for crank bearings and that is the clearance class; because of the temperature swing in an engine you should not use tight clearance bearings, use a class 3 or 4. The 91006-KBA-901 62/28 bearings are used on the 83-85 CB550/650 Nighthawk.

Shaft seals are also marked like bearings but there are so many varieties of lips and materials that sometimes they can be hard to find 3rd party. However for any application other than crank and fork seals I think common materials and lip configurations are adequate. For crank bearings and seals you should call All Balls Racing with the Montesa numbers and part descriptions.

I've learned the hard way that Honda fork seals are the best and have the lowest stiction.

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Thanks Chuck, that's some really good info to share! I went ahead and ordered the crank bearings from Sandfords because they were about what I expected to pay for an off the shelf bearing, but it is also good to note about the proper class to use!

The biggest problem I was running into was the crank seals. The problem is they are a pretty odd size, double lipped, AND made out of Viton! I couldn't find any seal that was a combination of all three, and the OEM ones are $70 something for just the right side one:eek: The good news is that one has a bushing on the ID, and it is still really soft so I can get away with using the old one if I'm careful.

It's not such a big deal for the other ones. If I use a lesser quality seal for the shift shaft then the worst that's going to happen is I'll get a little leakage and have to replace it again. I don't think I'll be having any problems though because the seals that are used on the CR125 are used in the same places.

I also saw a 49mm Showa fork rebuild kit for a Harley on Ebay for $25. It included seals, wipers, bushings, and clips. At that price they have got to be lower quality than the OEM ones, but I decided to go ahead and get some to see how well they do.

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I also saw a 49mm Showa fork rebuild kit for a Harley on Ebay for $25. It included seals, wipers, bushings, and clips. At that price they have got to be lower quality than the OEM ones, but I decided to go ahead and get some to see how well they do.

49mm?

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Haha, or is it 48? That was just off the top pf my head. They were the same size.

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I can't figure out why these 49MM seals are leaking on my 48MM forks!!!:bonk::smirk:

lol Well I haven't tried to install them, but they were the same size when I ordered them. Looks like the same parts, but we'll see...

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I believe the Showa's on the Montesa's are 39mm sliders - The older Paoli's are 38mm sliders.

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Looks like the kit works! I took apart the forks today to install the new seals. I ended up having to make a tool because I didn't have the dampener holder tool, but that didn't take long. I still have to do the rebound fork, but the seals and bushings fit perfectly on the dampener side! Time will tell how well they hold up, but $25 ain't a bad price at all.

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