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Protecting that linkage

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I think your wife is gonna be MAD when she comes home and there is grease all over the counter....

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I think your wife is gonna be MAD when she comes home and there is grease all over the counter....

She helped me to cut them out.. :bonk:

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Doesn't that add some drag when compressed in?

But only to a small point. When you rotate it with your hands, you can feel a small resistance. I don't think it matters..

I also greased those neopren washers :bonk:

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I used to pull my linkage apart and it would be packed with rust. I don't ride in water much. Do a search on fretting corrosion. The stress from metal to metal contact causes the steel to corrode. The rust dust mixes with the grease and thickens it to the point you have to pick it out with a screwdriver. But, what is the real issue here? It's the metal to metal contact. That means the grease is failing. It's not a moisture problem. Stick with a good quality RED colored grease and your problems will almost go away. I've actually had very good luck with Mobil 1's synthetic grease but most other red greases work well.

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I used to pull my linkage apart and it would be packed with rust. I don't ride in water much. Do a search on fretting corrosion. The stress from metal to metal contact causes the steel to corrode. The rust dust mixes with the grease and thickens it to the point you have to pick it out with a screwdriver. But, what is the real issue here? It's the metal to metal contact. That means the grease is failing. It's not a moisture problem. Stick with a good quality RED colored grease and your problems will almost go away. I've actually had very good luck with Mobil 1's synthetic grease but most other red greases work well.

Maybe one could say: metal to metal contact is the major issue and moisture is making it even worse.

The original seals within the linkage are definitely not watertight. They look good, but they don´t do a good job in keeping the water away. This mod adresses this issue and tries to decrease the gap that would allow water to come in.

Chris

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Not all greases are waterproof. Silkolene grease is not. It is red but I won't use it anymore. If you put a dab in your palm and add water and stir it around, it becmes an emulsified mess. I've had best luck with belray (green). Extremely waterproof, a little thick which gives it longevity but adds a tad of drag. I've recently become a big fan of BRP xps synthetic grease (purple). It is wispy light (no drag) but very waterproof. Not sure if the light viscosity is suficient to prevent metal/metal. I'm using it on my cold-weather only iceracer. I pack all the voids with grease, because I believe "water can't go there if it's filled with grease"!

Might the meoprene actually hold water? or is it "closed cell" ? I'd worry that it would absorb water and keep the area constantly moist.

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IStick with a good quality RED colored grease and your problems will almost go away. I've actually had very good luck with Mobil 1's synthetic grease but most other red greases work well.

I personally swear by GREEN grease (Belray).

JayC

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i use maxima racing oils waterproof grease (blue), like bellray i think, but the stuff is insane, leaves a film on everything.... very think, as stated above, if might create more drag buttttt hey it works for me, and when you wash your bike just be cautious of not blasting around bearings and seals.... id bet thats how most of the moisture gets in there, i just bought a 07 yz250f like new off craigslist, less than 10 hours on bike, the paint is not even rubbed off the clutch cover, stock grips like new... anyways first thing i did was break the hole bike down, the bike was never touched and sat for 3, 4 years, the stock grease was like new, so i just packed more maxima greases in there, stering, linkage, wheel bearings, swing arm bearings even the chain rollers lol. they do not put alot of grease on the bearings from the factory..... so that why i do it then i will put anti seize on the chain adjuster bolts too. kind of funny when my dad comes walking out in the garage, "what are you doing you had this bike for only 2 days and you all ready have it ripped apart" well i gave him the explanation. and yes maxima mixes with all greases. now yes there are other greases out there that are cheaper, maybe work better etc etc but at least i can go to sleep at night knowing that this grease will not hurt the seals and is high quality and is made for what im using it for..... i mean im shure i could find some other stuff that will work but why bother when i can go to my local mx store and get this instaed of searching for one just like it that wont harm seals and will hold up

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You may not know that the color of the grease sometimes means something and red greases are typically considered "premium" and are typically more tacky and hold up better in high stress chassis applications. Blue and green greases are for higher speed applications such as rolling element bearings and electric motors.

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Maybe one could say: metal to metal contact is the major issue and moisture is making it even worse.

The original seals within the linkage are definitely not watertight. They look good, but they don´t do a good job in keeping the water away. This mod adresses this issue and tries to decrease the gap that would allow water to come in.

Chris

You would be surprised. All of that red rust has nothing to do with moisture. I've been through this argument with my boss many times. We run a fleet of tug boats with Rolls Royce z-drives on them. The steering pump and lube pump are belt driven off of the main engine drive shaft and are probably around a 50-75 horsepower load. There is a splined female driver that turns the male input to the steering pump. This cavity is packed with a special moly grease. The trouble is, the grease is so viscous that it gets squeezed out from between the splines and carries very little oil so once that happens you have your metal to metal contact. The grease is originally black. When we open up these drivers they are packed full of red rust. There is zero moisture involved though my boss used to swear there was. We are experiencing severe fretting wear of the splined drivers with the spline teeth worn 30% through at 10,000 hours and an expected pump life of 25,000 hours. We'll be dangerously close to worn through at 25,000 hours. There is no back-up pump. Anyways, there is so much corrosion product being produced by the fretting that is causing the splines to seize up much like moisture related corrosion. We've been scraping out all of the moly grease and repacking the cavities with a premium red grease (Lubrication Engineer's Almaguard). We are no longer experiencing any fretting issues. We have had some issues with the base oil centrifuging out of the grease but that kind of works in our favor because it keeps the splines well oiled as it centrifuges out.

So, you don't need moisture to have corrosion. If your seals and collars are on good shape there should be minimal impact from moisture in your suspension. If you're seeing red rust in your linkage, change your lube.

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Consider a paste for your spline problem instead of grease, something like moly60.

avoid lithium based greases for waterproof applications, use an aluminum base soap like belray or schafers. They don't washout as easy.

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You may not know that the color of the grease sometimes means something and red greases are typically considered "premium" and are typically more tacky and hold up better in high stress chassis applications. Blue and green greases are for higher speed applications such as rolling element bearings and electric motors.

can anyone back this up because the maxima stuff tells you right on the bottle that its made for needle bearings, wheel bearings all the bearings on the bike and i have some actual chassis grease from the auto parts store with molly in it and it does not touch this stuff, and its black if that matters, but really its just coloring im shur mean much, and using a premium grease that is not right for the application is not going to do a better job because its premium, if the colors do mean something can you be more specific as to what, im curious to find out

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The color may or may not be an indicator of the lubricant base stock or emulsifying soap base used, but the labeling is considerably more important. Generally, your best bet is a non-lithium grease labeled EP2 that contains a molybdenum compound and is rated for marine use. The moly is important, as it is an exceptionally effective boundary lubricant that can prevent any metal to metal contact from occurring, and the EP2 (extreme pressure) grading means the lubricant oil itself has a high resistance to film failure in the first place.

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Consider a paste for your spline problem instead of grease, something like moly60.

avoid lithium based greases for waterproof applications, use an aluminum base soap like belray or schafers. They don't washout as easy.

Everybody complains about the factory grease not holding up. Honda, I know for a fact, uses moly 60 from the factory. It doesn't hold up.

The original greases in our spline couplings were moly pasts. I'm not sure exactly which (something Finnish) but the pastes were showing 100% failure rates between 8 units. The Almaguard grease is performing many times better. We've put 2000-3000 hours on the units since converting and have seen no additional wear. One unit has 10,000 hours on grease vs. paste because it stripped out the coupling almost immediately and that one shows acceptable wear rates.

The trouble with moly pastes is that once they squeeze out, they've squeezed out. They'll never work their way back in. Take dab of grease on one of your fingers and touch it to another. When you pull them apart if you get a bunch of strings of grease like spiderwebs, you have a good grease. The property that makes these strings also pulls the grease back into a bearing after it has been pounded out.

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This stuff works extremely well for all chassis applications. We don't use it in high speed applications because it generates too much heat. But it's water resistance and impact resistance are second to none. The black moly greases have very poor water resistance, especially under pressure. This is a lithium complex grease but I guarantee it will outperform most aluminum complex greases you have tried in the past.

http://www.le-inc.com/products.jsp?productID=52

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thanks for the link, the impact test reminds me chevron red (color stringy tacky)

are you using it successfully in your bike linkage?

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thanks for the link, the impact test reminds me chevron red (color stringy tacky)

are you using it successfully in your bike linkage?

Chevron's red grease and LE's Almagard are tangibly identical (we use Chevron lube products exclusively but for some reason we use LE greases). I'm not a big fan of the advertising gimmicks that LE uses. Chevron uses no such gimmicks. Just about every manufacturer has the same lineup of greases you've just got to know which one to apply where. Chevron's Ultra Duty EP performs very similarly to the Almagard 3752. Funny thing, though, CRC and Sta-Lube (commonly available at the car parts store) make a marine grease which is about the worst for water resistance of any grease I have ever used.

Now, if you want the ultimate for EP and water resistance try Pyroshield. This stuff blows away anything you can buy at the consumer level for water resistance. It's meant for chains and gears directly exposed to salt water spray. Chevron again has similar products. They've got an open gear lube which can be sprayed on and thickens in time but Pyroshield is some serious stuff. I hate using it because it's seriously hard to wash off your hands and is extremely tacky so if you try to apply it with a brush it will pull the bristles out of the brush.

Yes I have successfully used Chevron's red stick greasy in chassis applications on my bike.

http://www.le-inc.com/products.jsp?productID=63

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All of this sounds fine and dandy. The fact is though, that no matter what grease you use, your linkage still needs to be taken apart at least once a year, completely cleaned and relubed. Staying on topic though, i use belray waterproof grease and have had zero issues. Its green by the way, not sure if that matters.

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