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valve stem oil seals

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i did some work on the motor before, and added a few posts. so here is an update. the seals were leaking so the bike would smoke during start up for a few minutes then clear. when i replaced the seals with some found on ebay, still smoked. took the engine apart again this last weekend and inspected everything and put in new seals i got previously in a gasket set. they smoke even more. whats the deal. both pairs of seals leaked. am i missing something? i had new guides put in the last time the valve job was done. am i a fool who needs to find the oem seals and do it all over again? perplexed!!! otherwise, after the smoke burns off, the bike is clear and runs like a champ, although it did build up much more carbon in the combustion chamber. thanks in advance for any help!

bear

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I put new valve seals in my 94 XR650l and it did the same thing. It still smokes a little on start up then clears up in a few. SO I dont know if it was me doing somthig wrong on the install or cheap seals. Maybe someone has the answer for the both of us.

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sure hope so! kinda feel funny standing in a cloud when i start her up! takes away from the cool factor of the rest of the bike.....but she sure is purty!!!

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I've used the seals that come with a non standard gasket set before and never had a smoke issue with them, How long ago is it since you jokers have had a rebore or at least a hone and a new set of rings,,Nothing like a good rebore and a new set of rings and Piston to clear up smoking issues.

What's your mileage read on the speedo,,??and is it real.

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Kinda like Horri says...Your barking up the wrong tree....sorry.

The oil rings on these bikes can have too much clearance and do the SAME thing.Check the ring end gap.

Have seen it several times.

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Also...one other thing,,if the guides were replaced,i hope they changed the o-ring seals under the guides,,or oil will travel down and act just like valve stem seals leaking....i `ve seen at least 2 people rebuild their engines on this forum,,,to find out they missed the real oil burning issue...the o-rings were roasted...under the guides..

B

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Kinda like Horri says...Your barking up the wrong tree....sorry.

The oil rings on these bikes can have too much clearance and do the SAME thing.Check the ring end gap.

Have seen it several times.

Sorry for the hijack.

Do you think the end gap could be big enough the engine consumes oil, but small enough it doesn't smoke? Reason is mine doesn't smoke but it does consume oil at a rate of a little more than an 1/8 of a quart every 1,000mi. I ride on the freeway and keep the engine rpms out on the trail.

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Sorry for the hijack.

Do you think the end gap could be big enough the engine consumes oil, but small enough it doesn't smoke? Reason is mine doesn't smoke but it does consume oil at a rate of a little more than an 1/8 of a quart every 1,000mi. I ride on the freeway and keep the engine rpms out on the trail.

Yep,,but i'd bet if you had someone behind you they could smell smoke,but not really see it. I do this with my all riding buddys with newer 4-st s and everone of them iv'e torn down,has been in need of a top end.:bonk::smirk:

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An eighth of a quart(4oz) per 1000mi is nothing to worry about IMO. Between burning and anything that comes out of the breather, that's not much at all for that distance.

i did some work on the motor before, and added a few posts. so here is an update. the seals were leaking so the bike would smoke during start up for a few minutes then clear. when i replaced the seals with some found on ebay, still smoked. took the engine apart again this last weekend and inspected everything and put in new seals i got previously in a gasket set. they smoke even more. whats the deal. both pairs of seals leaked. am i missing something? i had new guides put in the last time the valve job was done. am i a fool who needs to find the oem seals and do it all over again? perplexed!!! otherwise, after the smoke burns off, the bike is clear and runs like a champ, although it did build up much more carbon in the combustion chamber. thanks in advance for any help!

bear

Did you put tape over the end of the valve and keeper grooves when installing it through the seal? Maybe the new seals were torn during installation...

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Did you put tape over the end of the valve and keeper grooves when installing it through the seal? Maybe the new seals were torn during installation...

No I dint use the tape. That could be it but I did use a little oil on them so they slide in easy with no drag. I am thinking Horri has it right with mine. I did a piston and ring on it about 1 1/2 years ago. It has a few hours on it since. so new ring are prob dew.

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Oil doesn't keep sharp edges from cutting the seal's lip. I don't know that it's even the problem, just something to think about.

How many hours/miles are on the rings?

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Not sure. The dash was gone when I got the bike about 3 1/2 years ago. I have put too much money into this thing so far. When I got it, it was in 2 boxes, a bucket and the frame rolling on the wheeles that was it. I was told 2nd gear was all it needed and it was fine. (ya right) I rode it alot last summer, woods and trail riding. before that was mostly weekends but hit and miss working out the bugs. The rings are about 1 1/2 years old.

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I agree with HT........1/8 of a quart burning off in 1000 miles would equate to a quart in 8000 miles...and with any high speed running that is pretty decent...

Ring gap growing will eat oil though.the larger the gap,,the more oil is burned.....but at this small rate i would not be tearing the engine apart..

B

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hey guys, thanks for the input. i am leaning toward the o rings not being installed or damaged on install. if you followed any of my other posts, the shop that originally installed guides and valve job messed up bad so i took head to another shop. i gave them new o rngs to ut in but was not there when they did the work, so who knows if they put them in. the guides were already in when the other shop took over so they would not have known about it. now that i think about it, before cleaning head i remember seeing an oil path from the guides but thought it was seal related. as far as the stems, no tape, but after "feeling" everything, i did not note any burs. i picture in my mind the oil sitting there seeping in as the bike sets. i would put it at over a 1qt/1000 miles. too much! solid compression so i dont think it is the piston rings or cylnder walls. i guess, that means new guides? pressing them out might ruin them i would think. so, whats the worst that could happen if i just leave it? more $ on oil. maybe carbon buildup breaks free and scars cyclnder wall before blowing out? is it worth it to fix or just leave it till i have to get in there the next time? money is tight so not like i can just buy a bunch more stuff and do it now.

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I agree with HT........1/8 of a quart burning off in 1000 miles would equate to a quart in 8000 miles...and with any high speed running that is pretty decent...

Ring gap growing will eat oil though.the larger the gap,,the more oil is burned.....but at this small rate i would not be tearing the engine apart..

B

Good way of puting it, I just figured after a rebuild it wouldn't burn oil.

I have no intention of tearing this engine apart now, however i'll probably crack it open in a year and freshin' it up with some rings, valve seals and address whatever else needs attention.

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Its a safe bet that when you remove the guides they will have some damage, visible or not, so new guides should deffinately be on hand when the o rings will be replaced. jmo

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My 94 600 did the same upon start up until I let it idle for a couple of minutes to warm up the valve guides. No more smoking after that change.

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My 650L smoked like a fighter bomber when I got it. With no way to tell how it was treated in its prior life I decided to pull off the top end and at the minimum do valve stem seals. Once the head was removed I could see where the oil was coming from. The valve stem seals were hard as rocks and would drop over the valve stems (yep, they died).

I used some Viton replacement seals. Since I was "right there" I pulled the piston and cylinder. My ring end gaps were all over size as well. Since the cylinder was not worn bad (no scoring or taper) I decided to hone it and new piston & ring time. Now with my replacement JE piston & rings sized correctly and valve stem seals my bike runs like new without leaving smoke trails.

The main point is IF you are going to tear into your engine never get in a hurry, look at everything on the way in and out and replace anything that looks questionable.

DSC_0004.jpg

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And the end result-

LEFTSIDE.jpg

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On December 30, 2011 at 0:03 AM, craftsman13 said:

Its a safe bet that when you remove the guides they will have some damage, visible or not, so new guides should deffinately be on hand when the o rings will be replaced. jmo

Ah, the only way to replace the o-rings is to remove the guides?

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