Electrical problem question.....

[GreaseGorilla]

First of all, awesomeness to the guy who posted the CDI repair guide......i am gonna try that before i buy one,

My bike is a 1991 XR600R

when i bought it, it had ben stood 2 years, i stripped carb, cleaned all through, fitted new air shut off valve........fixed the cam chain tensioner problem and cleaned a few little bits of metal out of the bottom of the engine.

there was a very very weak spark when i bought it, upon looking further the green wire from the rectifier was a little burnt at the connector and the connector was corroded. So i cut the bullets off and replaced them, still no spark. there is resistance between the leads of the rectifier.

the plug is new.

im now stumped as im not good on electrics and pretty broke..?... so if anyone has any ideas then please throw em my way! even better if you have apare parts that you know are OK and you can donate please let me know!

thanks GG

[Horri]

Below's a regulator

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/regp.jpg/

Below's a regulator/rectifier

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/regrec.jpg/

I doubt either of them will cause your bike not to start., I know that because my 89 had broken ones of both and still fired up and ran,, broken ones of either will mean your headlight and tailight won't work and or they will both blow bulbs..Are either of the above what you are talking about when you say "Rectifier" or are you meaning something entirely different like the Stator,,A semi worn out Stator will produce poor spark,,You'd need the ignition side of it rewound to produce good spark.,Cost about $100-150 NZ to get it rewound if you can find someone capable or willing to do it,,(Messy time consuming job so rewind guys are a rare breed) plus the RickyStators are pretty cheap making for tough competion for the one man band.,,I just had one rewound a short time ago by a joker here in Auckland..,excellent spark from it now..

Edited December 31, 2011 by Horri

[GreaseGorilla]

the part with the brnt end was then a regulator.

bike had weakish spark, enough to just see in the dark, and make your arm jump if you held the plug, now nada, nuttin, zilch

i dont want to start the fault finding ny buying and replacing parts to see what makes her run,,,,,,,, would rather have info first...... such as the wires coming from the stator 5 i thinkm red, green, pink, white and a black w red? stripe? dunno, will take pics, should there bw a way of testing these wires with an ohmmeter to figure if stator is good or bad? same with reg and coil?

im an electricsl bumbass its all i casn do to fit a headlamp bulb so all the help i can get from you giys will be welcome..

GG

Below's a regulator

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/regp.jpg/

Below's a regulator/rectifier

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/regrec.jpg/

I doubt either of them will cause your bike not to start., I know that because my 89 had broken ones of both and still fired up and ran,, broken ones of either will mean your headlight and tailight won't work and or they will both blow bulbs..Are either of the above what you are talking about when you say "Rectifier" or are you meaning something entirely different like the Stator,,A semi worn out Stator will produce poor spark,,You'd need the ignition side of it rewound to produce good spark.,Cost about $100-150 NZ to get it rewound if you can find someone capable or willing to do it,,(Messy time consuming job so rewind guys are a rare breed) plus the RickyStators are pretty cheap making for tough competion for the one man band.,,I just had one rewound a short time ago by a joker here in Auckland..,excellent spark from it now..

[brianhare]

These bikes are noted for stator failures............

The thread i wrote on CDI repair is for DC powered CDI`s.....yours is an AC voltage CDI......

The AC CDI can fail at the solder joints internally like the XR650L CDI..but not as likely..

There is thread after thread on here about XR600R stators failing..get yourself a shop manual and a multimeter and do the basic ohm tests to the stator before you spend anymore time at this...a Ricky or Electrosport stator isn`t alot of money either:thumbsup:

B

[GreaseGorilla]

thanks for the clarification Brian.......by the way shoulsd my CDI unit rattle a little when i shake it? it sounds like a little bb is bouncing in a padded box. just wondering?

also, can i rewind the stator myself?, i really dont have the cash to buy a stator.

These bikes are noted for stator failures............

The thread i wrote on CDI repair is for DC powered CDI`s.....yours is an AC voltage CDI......

The AC CDI can fail at the solder joints internally like the XR650L CDI..but not as likely..

There is thread after thread on here about XR600R stators failing..get yourself a shop manual and a multimeter and do the basic ohm tests to the stator before you spend anymore time at this...a Ricky or Electrosport stator isn`t alot of money either:thumbsup:

B

[Horri]

thanks for the clarification Brian.......by the way shoulsd my CDI unit rattle a little when i shake it? it sounds like a little bb is bouncing in a padded box. just wondering?

also, can i rewind the stator myself?, i really dont have the cash to buy a stator.

Thinking here is if the CDI rattles it's broken., I have a number of 600 XL/XR CDIs that rattle as you describe but still seem to work fine,,Plainly the rattles not a good sign but it doesn't necessarily mean it's had it.,,I still run a few rattlers on my various bikes without any noticeable problems,, It would be better in your case to run another one just in case it is the issue though.,

Some people rewind there own Stators,,I haven't tried it mainly due to a seeming lack of suppliers of the wire down here., I would not consider taking on a rewind of the ignition side of an XR stator as the wire required for the job's as thin as a piece of cotton and there must be 10000 turns needed to get the amount of wire on there required,,Need a bit of a home made semi auto winding/drill/bobbin type system to take it on,,Lighting sides not so bad as the wires thicker but that's not the part you'd need to tackle,.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Horri

[heart_of_darkness]

I once had a kill switch fail internally, shorting the ignition circuit and effectively making the kill switch permanently on. It's something to check.

The ignition circuit is completely independent of the headlight/tail light/ regulator circuit. Problems in the lighting circuit won't affect the ignition.

Yes, get a factory manual and check the resistance of each part.

[brianhare]

thanks for the clarification Brian.......by the way shoulsd my CDI unit rattle a little when i shake it? it sounds like a little bb is bouncing in a padded box. just wondering?

also, can i rewind the stator myself?, i really dont have the cash to buy a stator.

Rattle is normal,,believe it or not.........

You can rewind a stator,,not that difficult,getting it sealed and using the right guage wire and proper number of wraps on the pole is why most people buy new...

B

[Horri]

Rattle is normal,,believe it or not.........

You can rewind a stator,,not that difficult,getting it sealed and using the right guage wire and proper number of wraps on the pole is why most people buy new...

B

You serious about rattle being normal Brian,,Never new that,,Thinking out of the other place (Fourstrokes) was it meant defective..May have spoken too soon about running rattlers,,Had to get the 89 trucked home,,electrical failure of some description,,Non start,,I suspect defective CDI...will check properly tomorrow by replacing the one that's on the bike.,.,It's had a weird miss/hesitation since the last test ride which seemed to get worse as the electrical stuff heated up,,I actually thought the miss/hes may have been a still too lean condition,,bigger jets put that theory to rest today as it was still doing the oddball type hesitation at about 70-100ks,,Todays test run may have been the electrical components final straw.,Broken..though not too serious I don't think,,ie not a seizure.,Darn carbs still hanging up around idle as well,,thought that may have been cured with the bigger jets,,but No,,still the same and a major flaming annoyance.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Horri

[GreaseGorilla]

God i hate electrics!!!!!!!?

im gonna try and download a manual as its almost impossible to get one here in spain or any other parts for that matter, i knew i was taking a risk buying a non runner, but it had a spark when i first got it, 5 weeks later no spark, been through every electrical connection on bike, cleaned or renewed.

the regulator did heve a burnt connector on the green wire but has continuity stilll, its a little thing, 2 wires, if i needed a beefier one, who does em?

also seen some stators, new on ebay, high power though not ricky for like 65 quid and 25 postage may go for one of those if all else fails, but would want HD reg yes? or could i go the way some custom shops do and adapt say a 250 honda streetbike reg/rec to fit and just cut off the wires for the battery or even install a small burgler alarm battery as a shunt? who knows, electrics to me is still a black satanic art.....

[heart_of_darkness]

Your ignition circuit is completely separate from the regulator and lights. Problems with the regulator won't affect your ignition.

The only thing you need to be investigating is the ignition circuit, which is the one ignition wire from the stator (I think black with red stripe), the CDI, the coil/wire/spark plug, and the exciter thingy on the right side of the engine. I think that's all; someone else will chime in if I'm forgetting a part.

Aftermarket stators generally provide more electicity for the lights, but I don't think they change the ignition voltage.

If you can find another XR600 nearby, the easiest non-diagnostic way to troubleshoot is to just start swapping parts one by one.

[GreaseGorilla]

If you can find another XR600 nearby, the easiest non-diagnostic way to troubleshoot is to just start swapping parts one by one.

I wish! apart from the fact this is rural inland Spain 40kms from the coast, mine is the only XR600R for probably 100 miles and i do not habla enough espanol to start talking about swapping parts with local riders even if they had Xr's....the XT600 and KTMs seem to be the norm here in Spain.

but i will try the things you suggest.........as an aside does anyone have a datasheet on what resistance or yes no continuity for all the diff ign parts?

[brianhare]

You serious about rattle being normal Brian,,Never new that,,Thinking out of the other place (Fourstrokes) was it meant defective..May have spoken too soon about running rattlers,,Had to get the 89 trucked home,,electrical failure of some description,,Non start,,I suspect defective CDI...will check properly tomorrow by replacing the one that's on the bike.,.,It's had a weird miss/hesitation since the last test ride which seemed to get worse as the electrical stuff heated up,,I actually thought the miss/hes may have been a still too lean condition,,bigger jets put that theory to rest today as it was still doing the oddball type hesitation at about 70-100ks,,Todays test run may have been the electrical components final straw.,Broken..though not too serious I don't think,,ie not a seizure.,Darn carbs still hanging up around idle as well,,thought that may have been cured with the bigger jets,,but No,,still the same and a major flaming annoyance.

Well....i`ve repaired a PILE of the DC CDI`s........and noticed they rattled when i first started repairing them......and resoldering the board got them working,,,so.......not sure what`s rattling,,my thought is it`s in the relay soldered to the board...

So i guess i shouldn`t say it`s NORMAL..........but it doesn`t seem to affect it`s functionality:excuseme:? dunno

B

[brianhare]

I wish! apart from the fact this is rural inland Spain 40kms from the coast, mine is the only XR600R for probably 100 miles and i do not habla enough espanol to start talking about swapping parts with local riders even if they had Xr's....the XT600 and KTMs seem to be the norm here in Spain.

but i will try the things you suggest.........as an aside does anyone have a datasheet on what resistance or yes no continuity for all the diff ign parts?

Does your XR600R have a battery,,the reason i ask is i know XR`s over there can be different then ones over here...

The XR600R wiring diagram may be different...

B

[Horri]

Roger Brian,,I don't know what the rattling is either,,thought it may have been a bit of solder banging about..Haven't done anything to the broken 89..will do after this..

GreaseGorilla..

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/cdin.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/elecu.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/683/ignition.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/testin.jpg/

Copy the pictures from there,,Save as .jpg files..Open the saved files from your own computer with Firefox or Internet Explorer,,Left click with the mouse to get the blow up view., Are you on dialup or broadband..Few manuals around the net for download with all that in them

[brianhare]

Thanks Horri.........you`re a good man,,i couldn`t seem to find bugger all on the XR600R stator tests......but you are familiar with this older stuff more than me......i`m more into the newer stuff and fuel injection/computer controlled stuff.......and am lost without a decent wiring diagram......

I think what needs to be tested here first is the last link you posted with the ignition side of the stator to see if it ohms out for him or not,,then go from there..

?

B

[Horri]

Thanks Horri.........you`re a good man,,i couldn`t seem to find bugger all on the XR600R stator tests......but you are familiar with this older stuff more than me......i`m more into the newer stuff and fuel injection/computer controlled stuff.......and am lost without a decent wiring diagram......

I think what needs to be tested here first is the last link you posted with the ignition side of the stator to see if it ohms out for him or not,,then go from there..

?

B

He needs the complete manual really,,Those jpgs sort of lack the detail a bit on what to hook ohm meters up to etc,,You're also correct on that Stator maybe being a different unit to the US ones,,Think the Euros were more like ours with the AC/DC system,,Need to know how many wires are coming from it to id it I guess..I only have one spare working Stator of the older US XR600 variety but I'm not just giving it away.,

Edited January 3, 2012 by Horri

[GreaseGorilla]

You guys are AWESOME! thanks for all the info. i would be out there working on the bike now if it wasnt freezing and blowing a gale...........yep, gets cold in spain too! and I only have a porch area to work in...so gonna wait till this wind drops.

apart from that, you dudes are amazing......thanks so far for all your help!?

GG

[GreaseGorilla]

well thanks to you guys i braved the howling gale more out of curiosity now than anything else......

seems my stator ign output, the black n red wire is good! shows continuity and even turning engine over with kicker BY HAND without a plug i get 38 to 45 volts..so i ssume a full on kick may get me 50 or 60.

now i then tested the blue n green wires fron the crank sensor thingy and nada, zilch.... zero continuity. so i thought ok, maybe bad connection, so i went back an inch and scraped off a little insulation and went straight to wires,,,,,same story. so i thought YES!!!!!! problem solved, new pickup and im on my way.?

BUT the curiosity in me continued... im half cat i think..... and i checked next the coil.... primary windings OK,? secondary, nada,? remove plug cap, nothing, cut back an inch to bright wire, nothing.?

so my next stupid question of the year is....... Can a COIL and a PICKUP both go bad at the same time? :excuseme:or am i missing something? which is entireley possible.?

oh, also cut back off the cdi with mini bandsaw, just nicked through the plastic, peeled all insulation off, under magnification all joints look awesome, even used a jewellers eyeglass to check, so siliconed and self amalgamating tape and that is back together.

so any thoughts?

[GreaseGorilla]

decided i had bugger all to lose, so cut end off with bandsaw, drilled v small hole down side of brass insert, about 5mm deep then screwed a mall phillips head self tapper in good n tight, ground end off to a point and it has continuity, then screwed the point int the cut off and very short plug wire and yes, continuity!

all i need now is to get some brand new copper core plug wire and epoxy the livin crap outte the end and seal it then fit the plug cap on......

#still leaves the pulse generator though...... anyone know if ones from diff hondas say 250, 400, 125 etc will fit, even with a lil bodging?

below is pic of bastardised but hopefully now good coil