Rear brakes are still spongey!!??

[Bturner]

I've got good pads on the bike as of now, as in new looking, I think... I bled the rear breaks. At 1st I got air in the line, but was able to pump it out after a min. So, I bled them a few more times, and on the last pump I turned the nut closed. I the vent hose from the gas tank hooked to the bleeder nipple and the other end down in a bottle of Motul600 break fluid. I bought 2 bottles just for bleeding purposes. To try to avoid air, even though I didn't do that on my 1st try, I guess I got lazy. Then, I adjusted the break petal almost all the way to try to take al play out of it, make it as tight as possible. So why is the petal still going way down?? I feel like I have no rear breaks, I can't even feel them through my boots I have to push so far down, and it never seems to stop hard, anywhere:foul:

Whats yalls thoughts? JakeBlues, I know you know the answer to this:prof:

Also, I have 2 new pair of pads for the front and rear. Neutron Sintered Metal. Yea yea, I know, cheap, but they were on sale for $9.95 a pair through Rocky Mountain ATV/MC, which we all know has badass deals for our bike. Now, what is the recommended kind of material to use when it comes to break pads? Do you have to buy a $30 set of pads to get good, strong stopping power? Did I get a crappy pad, or decent, better than stock? Should I just go ahead and put these on, bled'em good an run it??

[Jakeblues]

I've got good pads on the bike as of now, as in new looking, I think... I bled the rear breaks. At 1st I got air in the line, but was able to pump it out after a min. So, I bled them a few more times, and on the last pump I turned the nut closed. I the vent hose from the gas tank hooked to the bleeder nipple and the other end down in a bottle of Motul600 break fluid. I bought 2 bottles just for bleeding purposes. To try to avoid air, even though I didn't do that on my 1st try, I guess I got lazy. Then, I adjusted the break petal almost all the way to try to take al play out of it, make it as tight as possible. So why is the petal still going way down?? I feel like I have no rear breaks, I can't even feel them through my boots I have to push so far down, and it never seems to stop hard, anywhere:foul:

Whats yalls thoughts? JakeBlues, I know you know the answer to this:prof:

Also, I have 2 new pair of pads for the front and rear. Neutron Sintered Metal. Yea yea, I know, cheap, but they were on sale for $9.95 a pair through Rocky Mountain ATV/MC, which we all know has badass deals for our bike. Now, what is the recommended kind of material to use when it comes to break pads? Do you have to buy a $30 set of pads to get good, strong stopping power? Did I get a crappy pad, or decent, better than stock? Should I just go ahead and put these on, bled'em good an run it??

I have a bunch of the neutron pads, bought 5 sets a while back, they are good pads. There are 2 types of pads carbon and sintered. Carbon have a better brake feel but wear out really quick especially in muddy conditions. Sintered are more durable but lack a little in feel.

Sounds like you still have air in the line...if you pump the pedal will the pressure build up?

I use a mighty vac to bleed the brakes, a hand pump attaches to the bleed valve on the caliper. You just have to watch the fluid level in the MC closely.

[Jakeblues]

Here's a link for back bleeding, http://www.john-stichnoth.com/BackBleed.html

20 minute s to pull MC, line, and caliper, less on the rear since it does not require wheel removal.

Edited January 3, 2012 by jakeblues

[2006450X]

This might sound stupid but have you checked if your back tire is locking up? Because when it locks up it doesnt stop fast.

[Bturner]

It barley does once the pedal is to the metal. I need it to lock up instantly bc that's how I hit alot of turns in the woods. I control my bike with the rear wheel just as much as the front. Spinning and locking up the rear wheel..

[2006450X]

I remeber my friend has a problem close to this on his KTM. The brake would start hard but if you were to hold it longer than a couple seconds it would become soft and spongy. I don't remeber what the problem was but we had a couple ideas.

1.The seal on the plunger that pushes the fluid was warn.

2.There was a extremely extremely small tear in the brake cable.

3.The brake was low on fluid

Have you checked all of these?

[jayc250x]

I've got good pads on the bike as of now, as in new looking, I think... I bled the rear breaks. At 1st I got air in the line, but was able to pump it out after a min. So, I bled them a few more times, and on the last pump I turned the nut closed. I the vent hose from the gas tank hooked to the bleeder nipple and the other end down in a bottle of Motul600 break fluid. I bought 2 bottles just for bleeding purposes. To try to avoid air, even though I didn't do that on my 1st try, I guess I got lazy. Then, I adjusted the break petal almost all the way to try to take al play out of it, make it as tight as possible. So why is the petal still going way down?? I feel like I have no rear breaks, I can't even feel them through my boots I have to push so far down, and it never seems to stop hard, anywhere:foul:

Whats yalls thoughts? JakeBlues, I know you know the answer to this:prof:

Also, I have 2 new pair of pads for the front and rear. Neutron Sintered Metal. Yea yea, I know, cheap, but they were on sale for $9.95 a pair through Rocky Mountain ATV/MC, which we all know has badass deals for our bike. Now, what is the recommended kind of material to use when it comes to break pads? Do you have to buy a $30 set of pads to get good, strong stopping power? Did I get a crappy pad, or decent, better than stock? Should I just go ahead and put these on, bled'em good an run it??

You still have air in the line or in the cylinder. Invest in a vacuum pump:

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/43/-/171/989/-/33078/Mityvac-Brake-Bleeder-Kit/MITYVAC

If you can pump the brake pedal and it feels solid in the garage, but your pedal goes to the floor while you are riding it, then your brake disk is warped.

Also, there is NO better brake pad than Honda OEM - stop better, last longer, etc. EBC are absolute junk, can't comment on the rest of the aftermarket. Let us know how the cheepie Neutron pads work out - I bought a set of them too for a backup. To answer your question though, in my experience I'd say yes, you do have to pay $30 to get good, strong stopping power (provided you're spending it at the Honda shop).

JayC

[Bturner]

Thats what I heard, that the OEM pads were damn good already. So, I'l try a few different things that yall mentioned to get the air out and see if that helps. The pads look new, so I know its gotta be some air, I just gota work with'em a bit longer

[rmoore0852]

In the rear, usually the air will get trapped where the line goes up to attach to the master cylinder. When you are bleeding the regular way, you are trying to push the air downhill, down the swingarm to the caliper. IF this is your issue, which I bet it is, there are two ways of getting the air out.

1. Remove the rear caliper, leaving the line attached. Put an old brake pad (or anything about the thickness of the rear brake disk) between the pads to keep the caliper piston in place. Hold or wire the caliper up high enough that the entire brake line is uphill, then bleed normally. Make sure your bleed valve is at the top of how you are holding the caliper. Remember air rises to the top.

2. Back bleeding is the easiest way I have found. I got a big syringe and attached a piece of clear hose to the tip. Fill it with brake fluid. Remove the top of the mc reservoir. Attach the hose to the bleed valve while bleeding out all air from the hose, open the valve, and push clean fluid through the caliper and into the mc. Use a second syringe to suck old fluid out of the reservoir as it fills up. The process is kind of hard to write down, but works well.

Bottom line is, air collects at the highest point of the system. Sounds like you have air stuck up in the top loop of the line. The same thing happens in the front brake where the front line loops higher than the front master cylinder.

[Bturner]

Cool man thanks, I'm gonna try that back bleeding because I've a couple of syringes laying around anyway, might as well:smirk:

[rmoore0852]

Make sure your "pusher" syringe is big enought to hold a good bit of fluid. The trick is to do the back bleed without introducing ANY air into the system.

[Bturner]

Ok, heres what we did yesterday...

My buddy has a machine that you hook to the nipple and it sucks the air and fluid out and while this is going on, you continue to fill the brake reservoir w/ brake fluid so it doesn't get sucks dry. I have new pads, I adjusted the brake lever all the way tight and it still is spongy. Yes the brakes lock up but that's after I put the petal to the metal:bonk:

I like to be able to touch it, and feel the pressure... All my other bikes did that after I bleed them!

[Bturner]

I had adjusted the rear pedal the wrong way. When I was thinking I was tightening it to take any extra slack out of it, I actually put more in it so when I pushed to pedal it had alot longer way to go before it reached up in the reservoir ?

[Jakeblues]

Well, Well, I guess we should all add Goon to the front of our usernames! Remember to leave just a little pedal freeplay. I keep missing the simplest answers, the guy whose bike wouldn't start...pull in the clutch, brake spongy...adjust pedal, DOH!

Well glad you found the cause.

[Bturner]

Its all good Jake! Your pretty much the 250x moderator anyway, you always have a good answer for everything.

Finally got my all white side panels in today along w/ my front sprocket. My Easton bar mounts didin't come with the damn bolts to mount them!!! I can't believe the idiot didn't recommend those when I bought the bar mounts. Their on sale for $2.49. Ordered those lastnight, so I'll get those Wed and be able to get the bars and mounts on finally. Rear fender and rear 51t Sunstars should be here by then as well and FINALLY my bike will be where I want it besides the bog off the bottom...?

[Jakeblues]

Its all good Jake! Your pretty much the 250x moderator anyway, you always have a good answer for everything.

Finally got my all white side panels in today along w/ my front sprocket. My Easton bar mounts didin't come with the damn bolts to mount them!!! I can't believe the idiot didn't recommend those when I bought the bar mounts. Their on sale for $2.49. Ordered those lastnight, so I'll get those Wed and be able to get the bars and mounts on finally. Rear fender and rear 51t Sunstars should be here by then as well and FINALLY my bike will be where I want it besides the bog off the bottom...?

I am really not that much of a guru here. 1 I am just too damn cheap to pay a shop so I have to figure stuff out with TT and the manual, and 2 I am just repeating a lot of the stuff I learned here! 2 things I don't know a lot about are jetting and suspension set-up.

Sucks about the bolts, probably gonna be more in shipping than the cost of the bolts!

[MX Tuner]

other end down in a bottle of Motul600 break fluid. I bought 2 bottles just for bleeding purposes.

Neutron Sintered Metal. Yea yea, I know, cheap, but they were on sale for $9.95 a pair

So you spend $40 on brake fluid but $10 on pads?

[Bturner]

So you spend $40 on brake fluid but $10 on pads?

Well they were a xmas gift. Stocking stuffer Doubt they'll ever go on. I tend to impulse buy on sales ? I'm not to seasoned on break pads, the brands and materials, or at least at the time. I've done my homework on them now. I'm sure they'll go w/ the bike as a freebie when I sell it, If I ever do. Best bike by far I've ever owned.

[Jakeblues]

Well they were a xmas gift. Stocking stuffer Doubt they'll ever go on. I tend to impulse buy on sales ? I'm not to seasoned on break pads, the brands and materials, or at least at the time. I've done my homework on them now. I'm sure they'll go w/ the bike as a freebie when I sell it, If I ever do. Best bike by far I've ever owned.

Goon just use the pads when you need to, I have been using Neutron pads for a while now, Tusk before that. I think they work just fine.

They do have a little less bite than stock, but I found that a plus because it made it easier to modulate the front without locking it up. Use them, if you don't like them replace them and still put them in your junk box or carry them as spares. You just might find that you like them and will be saving a considerable amount of money. Just make sure you buy sintered if you ride where there is mud. I bought the other type once and they were gone in two rides.

[Bturner]

I hear ya. They had good reviews, basically saying it was a good bang doe the buck. Maybe didnt last ad long, but for $10, they worked well enough..will see, if when the time comes and they work than great, if not then I spend $30 on a good brand. I don't think it hurts to try some cheaper parts every now and then, ya never know!