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Kendall Norman 2012!!!

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K....endall

T....ruena

M....otor...hmmmm???....it would be very interesting to see Caselli/Ramirez/Norman!

Edited by wr250tecaterider
all drinking red bull....!!

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KTM is making some big investments this year....

I guess when you have a bunch of "lemmings" buying up KTM's at $10k a bike, you have plenty of money to invest...

:smirk:

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I guess when you have a bunch of "lemmings" buying up KTM's at $10k a bike, you have plenty of money to invest...

:smirk:

I would phrase that as "When you build an innovative product that outperforms the competition, people will buy it regardless of the price" :bonk:

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Read It. Don't really believe it. I trust Enduro 360 would not post this info if it were not highly accurate. I think I'm going with Chilly on this one.

It all makes sense for everyone involved. Kendall is a showboater and a helluva racer but he got CUT out of JCR, for whatever reason, voluntary or otherwise, $ being some factor I'm sure.

It would be a shame if he was left to fend for himself...Purvines has a bike for him...but I think he's going to be on a pumpkin.

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Scotty, You are much more aware of what goes on than I am, however.

I think it is problematic to call Kendall the showboater when Campbell puts out a DVD bio distinguishing himself as the "True Champion" implying other champions are somehow less that true. And who among us at Kendall's age and with that talent and success would be perfectly humble?

Campbell is a great racer but all of his championships have come during a period of no competition. Long-term JCR has no Ogilvie or Bob Bell to develop future bikes.

In my experience, when the religiosity of a group gets as desperately external as it has at JCR this sort of disunity is predictable. Nothing divides people more than religion.

Losing Norman seems like a monumental failure of leadership. Moreso considering the other two riders JCR has permanently lost in the last year or so; JCR has had some very bad luck with crashes and had Norman stayed JCR would have had time to rebuild their talent pool. Norman podiums at nearly everything JCR drops him into. Norman is the talent who wins and no amount of leadership can make up for that.

Honda might be in a free fall of sorts. KTM now owns the offroad bike market. Kawasaki owns the street bike market and is aiming for #1 overall in sales.

If JCR starts losing iconic races will Honda pull the plug on an expensive program?

Read It. Don't really believe it. I trust Enduro 360 would not post this info if it were not highly accurate. I think I'm going with Chilly on this one.

It all makes sense for everyone involved. Kendall is a showboater and a helluva racer but he got CUT out of JCR, for whatever reason, voluntary or otherwise, $ being some factor I'm sure.

It would be a shame if he was left to fend for himself...Purvines has a bike for him...but I think he's going to be on a pumpkin.

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Honda might be in a free fall of sorts. KTM now owns the offroad bike market. Kawasaki owns the street bike market and is aiming for #1 overall in sales.

If JCR starts losing iconic races will Honda pull the plug on an expensive program?

This seems like a huge jump to conclusions. Colton, who was on the 'B' team for a couple years is now the top JCR rider. Hengeveld was dropped in much the same manner when Norman was coming into his own. Since Colton is now clearly JCR 'A' team, I assume JCR will add another up and coming rider for the 'B' team. This is not taking into account Honda Motorsports long term goals, but they have been helping to fund Baja racing for the past 20+ years, so it would seem drastic that they just pull out completely.

KTM is a world wide brand that sponsors racing world wide. Honda has never achieved this or come close to the scale of what KTM has done, so comparing the two companies is impossible. KTM Enduro bikes rule and KTM has dominated endurance races such as Dakar for many years. The Austrians know racing while developing and advancing their great products. Honda has never been in a position to complete with KTM world wide, only in the US. Honda has been able to be extremely successful in the relatively small Baja niche. If Honda pulled out of Baja, they would be pulling out of one of their most successful off-road programs ever. Wouldn't make sense, but I have not been paying attention to any of their financials.

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I say let's hope it is true and raises the level of desert racing competition for everyone.

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Scotty, You are much more aware of what goes on than I am, however.

I think it is problematic to call Kendall the showboater when Campbell puts out a DVD bio distinguishing himself as the "True Champion" implying other champions are somehow less that true. And who among us at Kendall's age and with that talent and success would be perfectly humble?

Campbell is a great racer but all of his championships have come during a period of no competition. Long-term JCR has no Ogilvie or Bob Bell to develop future bikes.

In my experience, when the religiosity of a group gets as desperately external as it has at JCR this sort of disunity is predictable. Nothing divides people more than religion.

Losing Norman seems like a monumental failure of leadership. Moreso considering the other two riders JCR has permanently lost in the last year or so; JCR has had some very bad luck with crashes and had Norman stayed JCR would have had time to rebuild their talent pool. Norman podiums at nearly everything JCR drops him into. Norman is the talent who wins and no amount of leadership can make up for that.

Honda might be in a free fall of sorts. KTM now owns the offroad bike market. Kawasaki owns the street bike market and is aiming for #1 overall in sales.

If JCR starts losing iconic races will Honda pull the plug on an expensive program?

The movie is call 'True Champion' which hardly implies other champions being "less than true". If it was called 'The True Champion' yes. It's a nice and inspirational story about overcoming adversity to achieve some great success, if I had the same story then I'd tell it too.

It's hard to build a team around multiple leaders.. in any sport. Probably a good move for both parties. I'm sure JCR and KN are optimistic about the future.

And in my experience nothing brings people together more than religion.

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Perhaps you are correct but where are your facts to support your conclusions? I don't work at Honda or KTM so I don't know their real long-term goals anymore than anyone else who doesn't work there and isn't directly involved in those high-level meetings. I do know their goals as stated by the PR Marketing hacks...

So where exactly am I jumping to conclusions? That KTM is #1 in dirt bike sales is well known. That Kawi is #1 in motorcycle sales is also well known. http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/Dealer+Sales/Kawasakis-three-year-plan-Become-No-1-in-sales-and/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/744136?contextCategoryId=48447 Am I jumping to conclusions about Honda pulling out of Baja if the competition arrives and their dominance ends? Of how much marketing value are their wins in Baja when there is no competition? Where is the proof they are of any value? Honda is dominating Baja AND losing market share. Are you implying their goal is to sell less motorcycles? If so then your hypothesis has merit.

Where is the universe of talent out there who can ride at Norman's pace? Where is JCR gonna fish all these other Kendall Normans from I ask you? I think Kawi's last two races in the 1000 are clearly understood by many to be a warning of Baja's life-threatening risk / reward structure and surely many top guys up here are reticent to risk life for the 1000. Some have publicly said it.

Yes KTM is a worldwide brand and will soon be 100% owned by a guy in India - a country with a well known commitment to American off-road racing. So will KTM stick to their focus on these small dirt markets or will they focus on selling a billion scooters and pizza bikes in India? What would you do if you were the billionaire owner of KTM? Would you have sleepless nights of worry about geting the latest technology to guys in the Cahon Zone?

Sure KTM has won several Dakars in a row now: every one since 2001. But before that Yamaha had won 9 and Honda had won 5 and BMW had won 6. What has it gotten KTM? I think BMW still owns that market segment here in the US for those huge bikes like the KTM 990. zKTM owns the dirt bike market but I think they are not #1 with the 450 market. KTM has passed Honda in dirt bike sales while not only losing the big races in Baja but often grenading their engines in a very public way. Perhaps KTM will learn what Honda and Yamaha did; Dakar wins don't translate into sales and neither do Baja wins. Isn't that what Honda learned with the XR650R? They only made 2500 a year and could even sell those. Some XR650Rs are in fact still sitting new on showroom floors. Ogilvie forced every dealer to accept at least one every year, which most traded for something else they could sell.

And this "Honda has never achieved this or come close to the scale of what KTM has done"? Are you smokin crack? Honda builds a jet airplane. Honda revolutionized America's concept of motorcycles. Honda built a Formule One car so powerful and dominant (over 11 horsepower per cubic inch) that Formula One banned the technologies.

KTM was nothing in American off-road until they bought Husaberg. KTMs before Husaberg were quirky, exotic, unreliable POS.

These are businesses and Baja is simply an investment. By changing their off-road program from the Ogilvie way to the JCR way Honda has already taken a step toward unraveling itself from Baja. Sure Honda has won every race since Kawi pulled out but would Honda have beaten Kawi if Kawi had stayed? Campbell is a great racer but he is not a Roeseler or a Hamel. I doubt Campbell is any faster than Ty Davis in Davis prime. Honda would have never beaten beaten Kawi with the old XR600. IN any case, the JCR team isn't really a factory team so Honda has by definition separated itself somewhat from the Baja effort.

When the history of motorcycles is written Honda will be chapters. KTM will be paragraphs.

Orange may be the new red but it is also the new pink.

This seems like a huge jump to conclusions. Colton, who was on the 'B' team for a couple years is now the top JCR rider. Hengeveld was dropped in much the same manner when Norman was coming into his own. Since Colton is now clearly JCR 'A' team, I assume JCR will add another up and coming rider for the 'B' team. This is not taking into account Honda Motorsports long term goals, but they have been helping to fund Baja racing for the past 20+ years, so it would seem drastic that they just pull out completely.

KTM is a world wide brand that sponsors racing world wide. Honda has never achieved this or come close to the scale of what KTM has done, so comparing the two companies is impossible. KTM Enduro bikes rule and KTM has dominated endurance races such as Dakar for many years. The Austrians know racing while developing and advancing their great products. Honda has never been in a position to complete with KTM world wide, only in the US. Honda has been able to be extremely successful in the relatively small Baja niche. If Honda pulled out of Baja, they would be pulling out of one of their most successful off-road programs ever. Wouldn't make sense, but I have not been paying attention to any of their financials.

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The title is an ellipsis. The whole title is either "A True Champion" or "The True Champion". The modification of the word "Champion" creates a distinction. You cannot have True Champions unless you have Untrue Champions.

I'd agree that there are in fact some champions who are more champion that others. Roeseler is a champion among champions IMHO. He dominated Baja on a brutally fast machine without GPS and perhaps without helicopter scouts... I don't have a huge problem with the DVD title and I also assume it has alot to do with someone's perception of Campbell's life story as much as it does his racing. He is perhaps a bit of a champion in life who has overcome some mild adversity with his father's death and so forth plus his strong commitment to his sort of spirituality. That is all fine and not really of any interest to me.

Remember, my remarks were that I found it unfair to call Norman a showboater, with all the ugliness that implies, in comparison to Campbell. That remark was an attack on Norman by a respected off-road journalist. I've spoken to Norman and Campbell briefly though I am not friends with either. Both were polite, friendly, and IMHO not particularly comfortable with spotlights. IMHO, the remark was unfair, inaccurate, and unethical.

My point to Scotty was part of a larger point I was implying to him because he is essentially a journalist. He took sides in this and that is not any journalist's role.

The comparison to Henge doesn't work either because Norman is still at his peak and Henge was, sadly for me, past his peak.

For juxtaposition, does anyone remember saying good riddance for McLaren when Senna left for Williams? Norman is simply the fastest guy in Baja at the moment and for any team to lose or gain his talent is a game changer because no manufacturer has a dominant bike.

The movie is call 'True Champion' which hardly implies other champions being "less than true". If it was called 'The True Champion' yes. It's a nice and inspirational story about overcoming adversity to achieve some great success, if I had the same story then I'd tell it too.

It's hard to build a team around multiple leaders.. in any sport. Probably a good move for both parties. I'm sure JCR and KN are optimistic about the future.

And in my experience nothing brings people together more than religion.

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Perhaps you are correct but where are your facts to support your conclusions?

So where exactly am I jumping to conclusions? That KTM is #1 in dirt bike sales is well known. That Kawi is #1 in motorcycle sales is also well known. http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/Dealer+Sales/Kawasakis-three-year-plan-Become-No-1-in-sales-and/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/744136?contextCategoryId=48447 Am I jumping to conclusions about Honda pulling out of Baja if the competition arrives and their dominance ends? Of how much marketing value are their wins in Baja when there is no competition? Where is the proof they are of any value? Honda is dominating Baja AND losing market share. Are you implying their goal is to sell less motorcycles? If so then your hypothesis has merit.

Where is the universe of talent out there who can ride at Norman's pace? Where is JCR gonna fish all these other Kendall Normans from I ask you? I think Kawi's last two races in the 1000 are clearly understood by many to be a warning of Baja's life-threatening risk / reward structure and surely many top guys up here are reticent to risk life for the 1000. Some have publicly said it.

Yes KTM is a worldwide brand and will soon be 100% owned by a guy in India - a country with a well known commitment to American off-road racing. So will KTM stick to their focus on these small dirt markets or will they focus on selling a billion scooters and pizza bikes in India? What would you do if you were the billionaire owner of KTM? Would you have sleepless nights of worry about geting the latest technology to guys in the Cahon Zone?

Sure KTM has won several Dakars in a row now: every one since 2001. But before that Yamaha had won 9 and Honda had won 5 and BMW had won 6. What has it gotten KTM? I think BMW still owns that market segment here in the US for those huge bikes like the KTM 990. zKTM owns the dirt bike market but I think they are not #1 with the 450 market. KTM has passed Honda in dirt bike sales while not only losing the big races in Baja but often grenading their engines in a very public way. Perhaps KTM will learn what Honda and Yamaha did; Dakar wins don't translate into sales and neither do Baja wins. Isn't that what Honda learned with the XR650R? They only made 2500 a year and could even sell those. Some XR650Rs are in fact still sitting new on showroom floors. Ogilvie forced every dealer to accept at least one every year, which most traded for something else they could sell.

And this "Honda has never achieved this or come close to the scale of what KTM has done"? Are you smokin crack? Honda builds a jet airplane. Honda revolutionized America's concept of motorcycles. Honda built a Formule One car so powerful and dominant (over 11 horsepower per cubic inch) that Formula One banned the technologies.

KTM was nothing in American off-road until they bought Husaberg. KTMs before Husaberg were quirky, exotic, unreliable POS.

These are businesses and Baja is simply an investment. By changing their off-road program from the Ogilvie way to the JCR way Honda has already taken a step toward unraveling itself from Baja. Sure Honda has won every race since Kawi pulled out but would Honda have beaten Kawi if Kawi had stayed? Campbell is a great racer but he is not a Roeseler or a Hamel. I doubt Campbell is any faster than Ty Davis in Davis prime. Honda would have never beaten beaten Kawi with the old XR600. IN any case, the JCR team isn't really a factory team so Honda has by definition separated itself somewhat from the Baja effort.

When the history of motorcycles is written Honda will be chapters. KTM will be paragraphs.

Orange may be the new red but it is also the new pink.

We agree with each other on most of what you wrote. I was purely referring to 2 wheels, off road and nothing else. I have the luxury of being a consumer. I don't tie myself to one brand. I try different bikes and figure out what I like. I don't think there's much of an argument when someone states that KTM has the best enduro bikes right now. Of course this is still my opinion only and you seem to have another.

I did not attack you when you voiced your opinion and lash out. I simply stated that I thought you jumped to conclusions on Honda pulling out of Baja as quickly as you stated. You seem to know your history, so you realize how much different bikes can be one decade later. This progression has slowed down slightly in the past 10 years, but compare a 15-20 year old bike to the current stock and it's not close. We all know this. The factory that puts money into any sort of 2 wheel racing above the others or with no competition wins, as everyone knows. KTM has definitely stepped their game up.

My point is this: KTM is all in right now in the US and the rest of the world. 20 years ago? Not so much, but when KTM is being competitive in Dakar, MX/SX, H&H, WORCS, any extreme Enduro, Etc, etc, etc... The dominate presence in Europe proves you are just being narrow minded on your preference of bikes. Perhaps you don't like 2 strokes?

Kendall is going to enjoy riding the KTM.

Edited by SDMatt

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Kendall is going to enjoy riding the KTM.

What makes you so sure?

Some inside scoop?

Any which way it plays out, it will be a great year for racing in Baja!

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What makes you so sure?

Some inside scoop?

Any which way it plays out, it will be a great year for racing in Baja!

:smirk: That's what it's all about.

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Honda would have never beaten beaten Kawi with the old XR600.

Agree. Too bad because they had a bike in the stable that was as good if not better than the KX500, but wanted to promote fourstrokes so raced the XR instead. A real shame as no way Kawi would have dominated for as long as they did had apples been racing against apples.

Back to Norman, it's also a shame for JCR for him to be let go. He may not be the future, but he is the now and head to head I would think he could beat Udall straight up 75% of the time. Just a gut feeling.

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Hey Kendall. You're a showboater, OK?

If I called you a narcissistic bubble-head who thinks his shit don't don't stink I'm sure we'd have a little problem communicating in the future...

But you are a showboater with the thick skin that goes along with it. Best of luck in 2012 where ever you land...But land somewhere and I still hope you will be riding with KTM...It's the best outcome for everyone and the biggest opportunity for a great show for all the fans in BAJA.

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