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Shifting with no clutch? 07 CRF450R

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Ok, this sounds really wrong to me, but hey I am wrong alot so thought I would ask the experts. My "buddy" asked me if I had problems shifting from 2nd to 3rd to 4th and 5th without using the clutch? I have never tried shifting without the cluth I told him. He claims he did it, was told to do it infact by some "Pro" on his yz250, he is now riding a 450, that yamaha version of my kick a$$ bike. He was told that shifting using the clutch while riding hard, like on a mx trackk is bad for the cluth, my simple mind says not doing it is bad for the tranny? What do you guys think?

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Yes you can shift up and down with out using the clutch. The Honda requires letting off the gas a bit when up shifting. A KTM can jam throught gears while holding it wide open....

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I shift without the clutch all the time when riding hard, wont hurt anything, just wears your basket a little faster ive been told and have seen for myself.

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i think ya can do a search and will find tons of info on this. Yes, especially on an mx track shifting clutchless is the way. on teh gas, roll off a tad and upshift. it is actually EASIER on the clutch for sure as it is never disengaged.

I shift without the clutch all the time when riding hard, wont hurt anything, just wears your basket a little faster ive been told and have seen for myself.

negative. THink about it, the clutch plates don't move up and down on the teeth of the basket when the pack stays together.. and if you do it smoothly (takes a bit of practice) the fibers won't bang the basket teeth either.

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ummm, ok, never thought it wold be ok but I guess it is, think I will still use my cluth for most riding I do out in the dessert, will try the no cluth method at the track next time I go.

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i think ya can do a search and will find tons of info on this. Yes, especially on an mx track shifting clutchless is the way. on teh gas, roll off a tad and upshift. it is actually EASIER on the clutch for sure as it is never disengaged.

negative. THink about it, the clutch plates don't move up and down on the teeth of the basket when the pack stays together.. and if you do it smoothly (takes a bit of practice) the fibers won't bang the basket teeth either.

yah, I was talking more of wear on the teeth of the basket. I find the teeth get grooved more from the plates banging on em from not using the clutch. But I just shift when I need to shift so its not usually smooth but I get the gear I need lol, probably why my baskets have wear on em. Dont really care, baskets arent that expensive lol

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Shifting without the clutch takes finesse with the throttle, rpm and left foot. It's not something that should be done all the time. There is a time and place for it.

If you are doing full throttle shifts with a clubfoot, it can lead to premature gearbox failures.

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If you want to pretend you're an F1 Driver, preload the shifter a bit, and blip the kill switch for a split second. It will instantly click right into the next gear.

Drag bikes and most race cars with sequential boxes actually briefly cut the spark like that during a shift.

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ive always done full throttle clutchless upshifting on my 06 450 without any problems. My trans is now superfinished and does clutchless full throttle shifing like BUTTER. wont hurt anything.

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i will agree that it isn't to be done all the time. I love the riders that do full throttle upshifts with clutch but don't let off the gas. LOL. Those poor clutch plates..

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i will agree that it isn't to be done all the time. I love the riders that do full throttle upshifts with clutch but don't let off the gas. LOL. Those poor clutch plates..

Thats what I do on the start. Is it really all that bad to do it 2 times on the start of each race?

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i suspect little to no problem.. when done only on occasion. there are a variety of shifting techniques that work. Some better than others, some with less stress on the trans and other motor parts than others.

In roadracing we have electronic "quick shifters" that are incorporated into the shift rod, and a wire that goes to the fuel management aka: power comander. it interupts the fuel delivery for a prescribed amount of milliseconds and allows full throttle upsfhits, even at 16,000rpm :smirk: I hear newer riders at the track holding the throttle open, clutch, shift, let clutch out.. You can hear the rpms of the bike rise up, then drop a bit as the clutch engages..real hard on the clutch and upsets the bike more.

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With just a little practice you should be able to shift smoothly w/out the clutch. Try rolling off the gas just a tad as you are learning it. You have to take a little tension off of the driveline to allow it to shift, either with the clutch (like you've been doing) or by reducing power (roll off, or cut fuel or spark like mentioned above).

A couple of years ago when my Dad bought a Rekluse he said he would be able to shift w/out the clutch. I was like "??" cuz I do it anyway and didn't have to buy a fancy clutch to do it with!

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With just a little practice you should be able to shift smoothly w/out the clutch. Try rolling off the gas just a tad as you are learning it. You have to take a little tension off of the driveline to allow it to shift, either with the clutch (like you've been doing) or by reducing power (roll off, or cut fuel or spark like mentioned above).

A couple of years ago when my Dad bought a Rekluse he said he would be able to shift w/out the clutch. I was like "??" cuz I do it anyway and didn't have to buy a fancy clutch to do it with!

i don't find the shifting much different with a recluse or without.. remember, a recluse engages once it's just above an idle speed. So above a little more than idle it is locked in just as if it wasn't there. Sure, in the tight stuff when in lower rpm and the ring is going in and out of engagement it will shift easier, but that isn't all the time.

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I know, I was just ragging on auto-clutches in general. :bonk:

no doubt, i was of the mind they were only for those that don't ride well.. "amatures" LOL. Then i got one. :smirk: Then i had to get another one for my other crf450.

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Hard clutchless shifting will wear the dogs in the tranny and the basket

Think about it, what are the dogs doing? They carry the load and transmit all the torque to the shaft. When you shift hard the dog carries the load on a smaller and smaller surface area. This causes the dogs to round off. An early sign is easy shifts to the next gear. Then light pressure will cause it to shift. Then it will start changing gears on bumps on it,s own.

Clutch basket grooving can be caused by the plate fingers slamming into the basket instead of a gradual progression of loading the basket. They also get worn from on off hard throttle applications or the ring gear too tight on the back of the basket. Worn cushions can kill the basket as well.

Any straight cut gearbox can be shifted without the clutch, with little harm, if done right. MX racing is not one of them.

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Hard clutchless shifting will wear the dogs in the tranny and the basket

Think about it, what are the dogs doing? They carry the load and transmit all the torque to the shaft. When you shift hard the dog carries the load on a smaller and smaller surface area. This causes the dogs to round off. An early sign is easy shifts to the next gear. Then light pressure will cause it to shift. Then it will start changing gears on bumps on it,s own.

Clutch basket grooving can be caused by the plate fingers slamming into the basket instead of a gradual progression of loading the basket. They also get worn from on off hard throttle applications or the ring gear too tight on the back of the basket. Worn cushions can kill the basket as well.

Any straight cut gearbox can be shifted without the clutch, with little harm, if done right. MX racing is not one of them.

totally, whole hartedly disagree with you R.S.

two words for you. "cush-drive". Also, there has to be an interuption of power to shift. That is where the "blip" of the throttle in a clutchless upshift comes in. Same principle of a "quickshifter" device. Kills ignition for milliseconds. Easy peasy nice n' easy on the trans. YEARS OF RACING, never an issue with my trans.

You do realise that EVERY roadracer that at least has a few amature races under thier belt, DOES NOT use a clutch. I know of VERY FEW transmission issues in roadracing. My 08 r6 superbike has 4 seasons of racing on the SAME TRANS. Not one single gear, shift fork, or drum replaced. IN FACT with 3-5 starts a race weekend on it, i get easily a full season on one set of clutch plates and that is a slipper clutch.

Most good MX riders i know, including my 30+ years of riding and racin, often downshift MX bikes with no clutch.. (there are times you do use a clutch, sure) issues with the trans are RARE.

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(there are times you do use a clutch, sure).

When should you use the clutch? Is it bad for the tranny to shift in the air with no clutch?

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