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Color Temperature Matters!

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Color temperature is a generally accepted means of describing the color of white light and is measured on the Kelvin(K) scale. Temps. below 3500k produce "warmer" or yellow light. Temps. above 6000k produce "cooler" or bluish light. Color temperatures above 6000k make it difficult for the human eye to perceive color variations and depth of field. For you off-road enthusiasts like us, this can be a real danger as the driver strains to see changes in terrain, dips, shadows, or other trail hazards.

Baja Designs uses LEDs in the 5000-6000k range. This color temp. mimics the sun and greatly reduces eye strain, driver fatigue, and easily spot obstacles at relatively high speeds. :smirk:

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When's Baja Designs going to sell an LED headlight that I can afford?

Unfortunately quality never comes cheaply, we at Baja Designs stand 100% behind the absolute best in off-road lighting quality. We are currently and always creating new ways for the technology to become more affordable to everyone; but again high quality takes time. I hope we can help you in the near future, in the mean time always check the site for newer designs that may suit your needs.

Thanks:ride:

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I have always laughed at people who spend hundreds of dollars to replace their stock headlights that are functioning normally with an HID set up then put in something like 9000k bulbs because they think the blue look is cool. So now they spent all that money and can't even see as well as they could with their stock lights.

4300k is where it's at!

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Unfortunately quality never comes cheaply, we at Baja Designs stand 100% behind the absolute best in off-road lighting quality. We are currently and always creating new ways for the technology to become more affordable to everyone; but again high quality takes time. I hope we can help you in the near future, in the mean time always check the site for newer designs that may suit your needs.

Thanks:ride:

I've seen your products and they're nice indeed. I work around a lot of heavy equipment (oilfield) and most newer stuff is equipped with extremely bright 12v LED lighting.

I have done a little research and found some nice 12v spot and flood lights in the 30-40 watt range for about $100-$120 (retail prices) for my trailer. I really like the Squadron LED light, but $350???. Really? I guess I don't understand why I'm paying $200 for a plastic number plate.

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I've seen your products and they're nice indeed. I work around a lot of heavy equipment (oilfield) and most newer stuff is equipped with extremely bright 12v LED lighting.

I have done a little research and found some nice 12v spot and flood lights in the 30-40 watt range for about $100-$120 (retail prices) for my trailer. I really like the Squadron LED light, but $350???. Really? I guess I don't understand why I'm paying $200 for a plastic number plate.

Cool, those trailer projects are always fun. Also what LEDs are you currently looking at? The squadron LED is an amazing light, from its in house mad housing(no pun intended) to its premier copper boards. The fact also is you are paying for the best quality, you are literally using a light that is used on trophy trucks that can cost into the millions. Its the same one many use to light their way though the Baja 1000.

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Cool, those trailer projects are always fun. Also what LEDs are you currently looking at? The squadron LED is an amazing light, from its in house mad housing(no pun intended) to its premier copper boards. The fact also is you are paying for the best quality, you are literally using a light that is used on trophy trucks that can cost into the millions. Its the same one many use to light their way though the Baja 1000.

Not trying to pick on BD, but maybe if you had a tiered product line, you might be able to sell more product. I understand the cost difference for HID lighting. HID lighting is pricey regardless you buy it from or what the application is. Mostly, because of the limited applications of HID (you don't really have a need for HID lighting in your kitchen). I just can't understand the huge difference in the LED lighting. I know how how much discrete electronic components cost and the cost of purely electronic devices, especially something as generic as an LED (thanks to low cost chinese manufacturers), and I'm not so certain that I need a sticker that says my lighting is suitable for Baja 1000 competition. All I need is a light that works with my 35w lighting coil that will get me back to my truck after the sun goes down.

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2grimjim

Don't forget there's a lot that goes into reflector design and such too. Those $3 9-LED flashlights up by the register at any Autoparts store might consume a fair number of watts and "look" really bright, but the usable light isn't very good, and definitely doesn't throw light any real distance. My single LED minewt mountain bike light throws an amazing amount of light, and a great distance, due to higher quality pieces and a good reflector design.

A "lumens" rating is a fairly decent way to determine how much light you'll get from a light. Cheap LED flashlights might only be 5-15 lumens. My $85 bike light is 350 lumens. Baja's LED Squadron is 3,600 lumens. But according to your post it sounds like you think a LED light is a LED light. I think you'll find most of those cheaper LED floods don't even utilize a reflector, they just point the LED diode out and let it shine. This is a great waste of light.

FYI

bought my father some LED backup lights to flushmount in his Jeep's rear bumper a few years back. They are blindingly bright to look at, but have no reflector to speak of. So despite burning your retinas out, they barely light up the ground or anything more than 8-10 feet away. A single 35w flood light was added and increased usability by 1000%. You can actually see when backing up at night now. (stock backup lights were removed when switched to flush-mount LED round taillights).

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2grimjim

Don't forget there's a lot that goes into reflector design and such too. Those $3 9-LED flashlights up by the register at any Autoparts store might consume a fair number of watts and "look" really bright, but the usable light isn't very good, and definitely doesn't throw light any real distance. My single LED minewt mountain bike light throws an amazing amount of light, and a great distance, due to higher quality pieces and a good reflector design.

A "lumens" rating is a fairly decent way to determine how much light you'll get from a light. Cheap LED flashlights might only be 5-15 lumens. My $85 bike light is 350 lumens. Baja's LED Squadron is 3,600 lumens. But according to your post it sounds like you think a LED light is a LED light. I think you'll find most of those cheaper LED floods don't even utilize a reflector, they just point the LED diode out and let it shine. This is a great waste of light.

FYI

bought my father some LED backup lights to flushmount in his Jeep's rear bumper a few years back. They are blindingly bright to look at, but have no reflector to speak of. So despite burning your retinas out, they barely light up the ground or anything more than 8-10 feet away. A single 35w flood light was added and increased usability by 1000%. You can actually see when backing up at night now. (stock backup lights were removed when switched to flush-mount LED round taillights).

No, I'm not referring to the cheezy LED garbage you get at Vato Zone. The ones I purchased for my trailer were 4x2.5 watt LED's in a 4" housing and have reflectors/lenses for a spotlight configuration. They are every bit as effective as a 35w headlight and they cost me $69.95 each plush shipping. These were the cheap ones. The expensive ones were 10x3 watt LED's and were about $110. I've seen the 15x3 watt LED flood lights and they are as bright as a 250 watt sodium vapor lamp.

I'm really not trying to pick on BD's products, they sell quality products for sure. I'm just having a really hard time trying to figure how they can justify $350 for an LED headlight. I'm sure the fact that no one else really makes one like it at the moment, and for the guys that must have one NOW, BD is the only option.

The most expensive discrete LED components I can find cost in the $10-$15 range (3mm square 5 watt LED's), and these are retail prices.

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No, I'm not referring to the cheezy LED garbage you get at Vato Zone. The ones I purchased for my trailer were 4x2.5 watt LED's in a 4" housing and have reflectors/lenses for a spotlight configuration. They are every bit as effective as a 35w headlight and they cost me $69.95 each plush shipping. These were the cheap ones. The expensive ones were 10x3 watt LED's and were about $110. I've seen the 15x3 watt LED flood lights and they are as bright as a 250 watt sodium vapor lamp.

I'm really not trying to pick on BD's products, they sell quality products for sure. I'm just having a really hard time trying to figure how they can justify $350 for an LED headlight. I'm sure the fact that no one else really makes one like it at the moment, and for the guys that must have one NOW, BD is the only option.

The most expensive discrete LED components I can find cost in the $10-$15 range (3mm square 5 watt LED's), and these are retail prices.

Ahh, I see. I assumed you were talking about the el-cheapo fogs/floods/backup/utility etc LED's that have no beam pattern of any kind. The one's I bought my dad years ago were from a specially off-road supplier and made all sorts of great claims. I would have saved $50 and gotten some of the cheapos if I had known they would have been the same dang thing (I can probably find the same lights now for $10 a pair).

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Anyway, why all the talk about led colour temperature and binning when optics are usually the limiting factor?

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Anyway, why all the talk about led colour temperature and binning when optics are usually the limiting factor?

Hey 7point62, you are correct in saying that the optics play a huge factor in the function of the light. The reason for posting these; I don't know if you got a chance a read the post "light output vs. light distribution". It is very informative about the optics and also brings all the other information together. We posted about many topics, like color temp. and binning because they are an extremely relevant process to the inner workings and function of off-road lighting. Thanks for reading and the feedback. BD

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Glad I found this. Looking for input from experience with motorcycle LED's.

I have 2 bikes I want to use for long distance adv travel. 1st is a WR250R that I have installed a non DOT Trail Tech X2 HID light. It works vrey well with a couple of small dislikes (narrow low beam - not much ditch light). Also this thing puts out some serious light on high beam but it seems alot of it is misdirected up and could have been more usable.

I like this light well enough that I bought another one to mount on my XR650R but I have since sold it and decided I want LED for a couple of reasons. I have a upgraded stator and rectifier/regulator and am not going to run a battery - maybe a capacitor but I doubt it.

I would like a wide low beam with a good cutoff that adjusted properly won't offend oncoming vehicles, and a BAJA 1000 high beam. I know that LED can be dimmed with voltage reduction but I don't know if that is good enough to eliminate glare to oncoming traffic. I would appreciate your input and recomendations. Thanks

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Glad I found this. Looking for input from experience with motorcycle LED's.

I have 2 bikes I want to use for long distance adv travel. 1st is a WR250R that I have installed a non DOT Trail Tech X2 HID light. It works vrey well with a couple of small dislikes (narrow low beam - not much ditch light). Also this thing puts out some serious light on high beam but it seems alot of it is misdirected up and could have been more usable.

I like this light well enough that I bought another one to mount on my XR650R but I have since sold it and decided I want LED for a couple of reasons. I have a upgraded stator and rectifier/regulator and am not going to run a battery - maybe a capacitor but I doubt it.

I would like a wide low beam with a good cutoff that adjusted properly won't offend oncoming vehicles, and a BAJA 1000 high beam. I know that LED can be dimmed with voltage reduction but I don't know if that is good enough to eliminate glare to oncoming traffic. I would appreciate your input and recomendations. Thanks

Hey hrossington, I don't want to sound like a salesman here, but the Squadron is a great off-road light with a beam pattern specifically made for seeing the obstacles that may get in your way.(ditches, brush, razors, etc.) There is no high lo setting for on-coming traffic, but there is a dim switch which would get rid of a lot of glare to on lookers.

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It's easy and cheap to make efficient, bright but blueish leds. Making a warm, bright and efficient is almost impossible and that's why they cost ten times (or more) than the blueish leds.

To me leds as driving lights have never looked good no matter what colour temperature, besides street legal leds do not really exist because to be street legal there needs to be a pattern which loses some of the light which with leds is not acceptable due to low light output. HID's and others are not limited by light output, but rather by regulations for road vehicles. So far hid still wins because they are much ligher and more powerful, although consume a little more power.

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It's easy and cheap to make efficient, bright but blueish leds. Making a warm, bright and efficient is almost impossible and that's why they cost ten times (or more) than the blueish leds.

To me leds as driving lights have never looked good no matter what colour temperature, besides street legal leds do not really exist because to be street legal there needs to be a pattern which loses some of the light which with leds is not acceptable due to low light output. HID's and others are not limited by light output, but rather by regulations for road vehicles. So far hid still wins because they are much ligher and more powerful, although consume a little more power.

Some great points Gravelfreak you are definitely right LEDs and their projection housing are currently not practical for street use, they are an off-road light. The HID vs LED is still becoming a much more personal preference to riders; however a blue LED should not be used off-roading if possible, it does not create practical lighting for the human eye to percieve. Again it seems these two always come down to personal preference, thanks for the input.:smirk:

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The most expensive discrete LED components I can find cost in the $10-$15 range (3mm square 5 watt LED's), and these are retail prices.

Go on Digikey's website and check out the high brightness white lighting LEDs. I'm seeing pricing of 45~80 dollars per diode. Granted Digikey's on the high side but...

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Go on Digikey's website and check out the high brightness white lighting LEDs. I'm seeing pricing of 45~80 dollars per diode. Granted Digikey's on the high side but...

I guess the point I'm trying to make is my lighting coil only puts out 35 watts (and without doing some major surgury, never will put out much more), and the Squadron LED is rated for 40 watts. LED's are wonderfully effecient at producing light but I don't need a light that will burn the retinas out of the eyes of jackrabbits and coyotes a half mile away. LED lighting could is a great platform for applications where generating power is limited. Granted the Squadron would work just fine on my WR450, I also have the option of rewinding the stator (or replacing it with one of higher capacity) and just plugging in a higher wattage bulb. Neither of those options are viable on my YZ450 without considerable expense.

If someone made a LED headlight similar to the Squadron that only requires 25-30 watts of power and cost under $200, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

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I guess the point I'm trying to make is my lighting coil only puts out 35 watts (and without doing some major surgury, never will put out much more), and the Squadron LED is rated for 40 watts. LED's are wonderfully effecient at producing light but I don't need a light that will burn the retinas out of the eyes of jackrabbits and coyotes a half mile away. LED lighting could is a great platform for applications where generating power is limited. Granted the Squadron would work just fine on my WR450, I also have the option of rewinding the stator (or replacing it with one of higher capacity) and just plugging in a higher wattage bulb. Neither of those options are viable on my YZ450 without considerable expense.

If someone made a LED headlight similar to the Squadron that only requires 25-30 watts of power and cost under $200, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Hey 2grimjim, I have a few options that I would believe work for you, but first I need to know the year of your YZ450 and also the specs. on your stator. Also feel free to PM with this info, it is received a little more directly.

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