BASE train? -cardio

[jimbosliced]

I have been searching high and low on the internet in attempt to find the best way to get fit for racing. I just joined a gym and they have me on the elliptical for cardio going at bout 160bpm. I read on here somewhere that base training (in the 128 bpm area) for 8 weeks is key for beginners. I've been in gyms before and I know how to lift free weights but they threw me on the isolated machines right away (probably to cover their own asses).

I'm 24, bout 165lbs. If I do the 8 weeks of "BASE", how long should I be on the elliptical/cycle/running (minutes wise)?

I want to do this right and put 100% into it but its pretty deterring reading ive been doing it wrong. I think I'm going to do strength training(including core and flexibility) + base training(for cardio) before I start with HIIT. Good plan?

I've seen plenty of these threads but never really getting what I'm looking for, sorry for posting something if it has already been said. ?

[Hans Schmid]

For a real good plan, go play soccer! Add weights to you ankles if needed.

As for strength, do every thing on a wobble board or ball. Light weight, high reps.

[jimbosliced]

I really like the lifting on a ball or wobble board idea. That seems like a painful good idea to get a mean core and strength workout.?

As for soccer.. It's January in Chicago I don't have any active friends either so I'm solo with gettin fit to ride the track. I will be riding all I can once this cold, wet, slippery time of year is finished. But I want to do whats best for my body to stop getting so winded.

[Hans Schmid]

I really like the lifting on a ball or wobble board idea. That seems like a painful good idea to get a mean core and strength workout.?

As for soccer.. It's January in Chicago I don't have any active friends either so I'm solo with gettin fit to ride the track. I will be riding all I can once this cold, wet, slippery time of year is finished. But I want to do whats best for my body to stop getting so winded.

Well, the most simple and hardcore way for cardio is running, its cheap to do and the results speak for themself. The downside is that it can be hard on the knees.

Lung capacity and O2 convertion is somewhat of a new theory when it comes to training. Not just how much air you can get in the body, but using as much available as possible.

Try looking at this item, maybe incorperate is as a training tool during your cardio workouts......I think there are major benefits to be made from this item!

http://www.o2trainer.com/

[jimbosliced]

Try looking at this item, maybe incorperate is as a training tool during your cardio workouts......I think there are major benefits to be made from this item!

http://www.o2trainer.com/

Sounds pretty good. I'll have to check it out, thanks. I quit smoking about a year ago so I may need this

[Junebug1998]

Article on Base Building:

http://www.spinning.com/newsletter-ride-on/september08.html

This is way better than the Elliptical in my opinioin and is used by motorcycle racers around the world:

http://www.concept2.com/us/default.asp

Check out the training tab at the top.

and below is what I use to determine Heart Rate Zones. I prefer to use heart rate reserve instead of the typical percentage of Max Heart Rate. Anyway just fill in the yellow boxes with your age and resting heart rate and then it will calculate the rest for you. So then in theory to build your "Base" you would want to train in the UT1 and UT2 heart rate zones for that 8-12 week time frame.

http://www.randyharris.net/Heart_Rate.xls

based on what you have told us of 24 years old if you plug that in and then use say a resting heart rate of 60 beats per minute that means that if the gym told you to train at 160bpm they are working you at the UT1 level which is were you should be working to build your base.

Hope this helps.

[jimbosliced]

Thank you so much! Thats what im lookin for. Only thing is according to the base building article 160 bpm is too high.. it says 65% to 75% of my mhr. 220-24 = 196. I need to do a test to be sure but those numbers show 127.4 to 147. I'm gonna go with that because it says not to go over, right? Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding

I wish I could afford a concept2, though. Those things look so nice. Maybe I can find a gym with one.

Big thanks to both of you, I appreciate the help!

[Watige420]

Read through "Cardio TOO Much"

[jimbosliced]

Read through "Cardio TOO Much"

That's where I found the idea of base building, thanks to you. I wanted to PM you but didn't want to be a bother. I guess my only question left would be how many minutes should I be at my base bpm? I can't afford a max hr test so I'll have to calculate. 220-age which would put me at 196, or another way (i cannot find the equation) 190bpm.

So 30 mins, 45 mins, an hour? I'll go 8 hours if it's beneficial but i cant imagine it is.

Thank you very much for the info

[jimbosliced]

I contacted a personal trainer saying i want to get in shape to ride motocross. Mentioned base training and asked if their gym has a rower. She said a rower isn't what I want and I need to train in high heart rate zones for motocross :/

I don't think I'll ever listen to a trainer again :sigh:

[Stillhavetimeleft]

I learned about base training from this site. I had a couple threads going about my possible training routines.

I am 41 and settled on max 130bpm for base training. Within 4 or 5 weeks I started to see a decrease in my resting heart rate and my heart rate in general. probably dropped by 10 or 15 bpm and that tells me that my body doesn't have to work as hard to get oxygen where it's needed.

My plan was gym 5 days a week and weekends off to let my body heal and recoup which I have learned is SUPER important. I started with strength training mon-wed-fri with a 10 min warm up and stretching before and after. Tues-thurs were 10 min warm up (on treadmill) then thorough stretching then 1 hour on the treadmill or elliptical at no more than 130bpm. Complete stretching after as well. You need to stretch if you want to avoid injury so dont ignore it.

I felt weight training 3 days a week was getting too much for me as I try to do entire body and it seemed I didn't have enough time to heal from all that. I swapped them for 3 cardio and 2 weight training and this seems about perfect for me. This adds up to about 2 hours a day in the gym mon to fri.

I will base train for 2 more months (been at it for 6 weeks) then will start to train for cardio at higher levels and will also trade in weights for circuit type training since I will be allowed to elevate my heart rate at this time. I love body pump and boot camp classes. Great freaking workouts and it's all elevated heart rate and light weight but high reps. Perfect for endurance training.

That's the plan until I start riding in may. I really want to develop my cardio and I believe this base training phase is really doing what I have read that it does... capillaries and mitochondria in the muscles ect. Right now, during the base period I am busting my ass on weight days as I want to be strong and also work on core.

From what I have seen so far I really suggest base training as we all know it's fatigue and running out of steam that gets us when riding hard so I hope in spring I can ride hard and not feel like I am going to die of heart failure in one lap.

[hershey]

What kind of heart beat monitors are you guys using? I'm thinking about buying a wrist watch type.

Also, will I lose weight/burn fat on this base training period?

Edited January 8, 2012 by hershey

[jfgjr]

What kind of heart beat monitors are you guys using? I'm thinking about buying a wrist watch type.

Also, will I lose weight/burn fat on this base training period?

I have had the best luck with Polar. I am sure there are other brands that work well now. I have tried a few others and the readings were not as consistent and seemed to suffer from interuptions more frequently.

[jimbosliced]

What kind of heart beat monitors are you guys using? I'm thinking about buying a wrist watch type.

Also, will I lose weight/burn fat on this base training period?

From what I'm gathering around here chest is the best. Probably more money but it gives you instant hr instead of averages(do your own research I may be misinformed).

Also look around the first page of this thread. Somebody listed a good article on base building. You train your body to use fat for fuel instead of carbs. I also read you should deplete your body of carbs during this phase to help that process. After a min of 8 weeks your body will adapt.

Again everything stated above is from what i interpenetrated from here and on the nets. Best bet is finding an athletic performance lab:banghead:

I learned about base training from this site. I had a couple threads going about my possible training routines.

I am 41 and settled on max 130bpm for base training. Within 4 or 5 weeks I started to see a decrease in my resting heart rate and my heart rate in general. probably dropped by 10 or 15 bpm and that tells me that my body doesn't have to work as hard to get oxygen where it's needed.

My plan was gym 5 days a week and weekends off to let my body heal and recoup which I have learned is SUPER important. I started with strength training mon-wed-fri with a 10 min warm up and stretching before and after. Tues-thurs were 10 min warm up (on treadmill) then thorough stretching then 1 hour on the treadmill or elliptical at no more than 130bpm. Complete stretching after as well. You need to stretch if you want to avoid injury so dont ignore it.

I felt weight training 3 days a week was getting too much for me as I try to do entire body and it seemed I didn't have enough time to heal from all that. I swapped them for 3 cardio and 2 weight training and this seems about perfect for me. This adds up to about 2 hours a day in the gym mon to fri.

I will base train for 2 more months (been at it for 6 weeks) then will start to train for cardio at higher levels and will also trade in weights for circuit type training since I will be allowed to elevate my heart rate at this time. I love body pump and boot camp classes. Great freaking workouts and it's all elevated heart rate and light weight but high reps. Perfect for endurance training.

That's the plan until I start riding in may. I really want to develop my cardio and I believe this base training phase is really doing what I have read that it does... capillaries and mitochondria in the muscles ect. Right now, during the base period I am busting my ass on weight days as I want to be strong and also work on core.

From what I have seen so far I really suggest base training as we all know it's fatigue and running out of steam that gets us when riding hard so I hope in spring I can ride hard and not feel like I am going to die of heart failure in one lap.

Cool. I am definitely starting a base tomorrow. 12 weeks or more if I feel necessary. I'm going to take your approach with 3 cardio 2 strength days to see how that goes. Thanks for your input ?

[Stillhavetimeleft]

I dont use a HR monitor just yet. I use the ones on the treadmill and elliptical. This way the computer adjusts the resistance or incline on treadmill to keep my hr around 128-130. They seem to do a pretty good job of it as well. I find after 20 mins of base training cardio the maching starts to slowly increase incline or resistance in order to keep my HR at 130 otherwise it starts to drop. For example on the treadmill I set it at 3.8-4.0 mph and that gives me a very brisk walk, any faster and I would have to start to jog and I dont want that because I have to keep my hands on the HR sensors. The incline usually ends up around 4.5 after 14 minutes to keep my hr at 130 then near the end of my hour long workout it has slowly increased to 8 or 9.

This is why I like the machine doing it instead of me. It constantly adjusts to keep me at 128-130bpm.

A word about HR monitors. I have not bought one yet but I read over and over that Polar is the most trusted. You need the chest strap kind that displays your HR on a watch that comes with it. It's a blue tooth type thing, no wire between the two. Also, there are analog and digital types. I read once that our bikes unshielded ignitions can interfere with analog types and it is wise to buy one that uses a digital frequency to communicate with the watch. I have seen base model digital signal ones go for $75 so shop around. Anymore than that and you are paying for functionality of the watch, memory ect.. ability to log data on your pc so you can keep track ect.

I read too that base training is best for burning fat because you keep your body from going into an anaerobic state which is when it starts looking for energy stored in our muscles. So on my aerobic workout days i dont eat carbs like white rice, pasta or breads ect. Apparently this will train your body to not look to the muscles as quickly for energy when you exercise.

I did read that base training kills your aerobic endurance at higher HR's past 70% so after 8 or 12 weeks of base training you need to start introducing higher HR's to get that back. You need to read about training for cardio endurance. Just ramping it up to 90% of your max HR is not the way to go. I still need to learn about this part but I think it's called interval training. You start at 70% for 10 mins, then go to 80% for 5 mins, back to 70% for 10 then up to 90% for 5. Something like that.

I dont ever let my HR pass 130 which is just under the 70% max HR for me. Even when I am lifting weights I take nice breaks in between sets to make sure I dont jack it up because I'm certain I can easily get it to 150 no probs if I go at weights hard.

And this is strength training am I in. once I can bring hr past 130 I will hit the body pump and circuit training type classes. they are awesome for endurance and core.

[jimbosliced]

I still need to get a hr monitor. I'd like to use it for my weight training days to make sure not to go over the base hr zone. Once the 12 weeks are up I have a gym near me that has group sessions with bands, free weights, all types of circuit style training I'll be hitting up. I'll be breaking my bike down and checking over everything in these 12 weeks. Hopefully I don't find too many problems along the way. 89 rm250

[hershey]

I need clarification on what percentage of my MHR I should be working at. I've been working at 75%, but keep reading 65%.

My theoretical MHR is 195, I'm maintaining 146(75%) on the elliptical machine +/- 5bpm. Should I be working at this level or way down at 126bpm (65%)?

[jimbosliced]

I don't know. I've never read 75%, read that article. I think it was 65 o 70. Then after the base period get your higher heart rate endurance up by circuit training on strength days and HIIT on cardio days

[jimbosliced]

I need clarification on what percentage of my MHR I should be working at. I've been working at 75%, but keep reading 65%.

My theoretical MHR is 195, I'm maintaining 146(75%) on the elliptical machine +/- 5bpm. Should I be working at this level or way down at 126bpm (65%)?

didn't mean to quote this here. Getting use to the new forum. It wouldnt quote when I clicked it

Edited January 18, 2012 by jimbosliced

[hershey]

Hmm, that Randy Harris spreadsheet illustrates 70-80% (UT1 column) as heavy aerobic work, not yet approaching anaerobic level.

And that spinning article contradicts itself in one paragraph it states 65-75% is your aerobic range, then in another paragraph it gives you an equation to determine your aerobic range between 65% and 80%.

Well, hopefully 75% is okay for me to train at. I'm young and in decent shape, 75% is easy for me to sustain at this time.