Seized KTM 380, pics

[Exbuhe]

Well, before a trip out to california for some riding, I was worried about getting a new clutch for my bike. I have slightly bigger problems now?

Bike was running funny the first day out (I hadn't bothered to re-jet it yet, because we stupidly left all our jets back home, and I wanted to ride), but after riding for that day, I immediately went out and jumped 20 ticks jet-size.

Bike ran better, but not 100%, and seemed pretty vibrate-y, which was a bad sign to me, but my pipe mounts were shredded at the time, and the springs were not really springs anymore, so after new mounts and springs, I gave it another day.

Still vibrated a ton, just chalked it up to engine noise (which I guess it was, huh? ?).

Took it out to the dunes, jumped another 8 ticks in jet size for that. Ran pretty decently, but not great, and still vibrated a lot. Part way through my first ride, I saw that the back axle bearing seal had popped out, so I rode it back. Bearing had done a number on everything it could, luckily the hub was salvageable, bought 1 new bearing (all I could get a-hold of) and seal, and unluckily, I was pretty bad at cleaning up the rim hub to get the new bearing it (kinda mangled it), but it worked now. Lost a few days to that one.

Last day of riding, first day on the new bearing. Bike is running fine, maybe even a little less vibrate-y, bearing is holding up, things are going well. 30 minutes into enjoying the hell out of ocotillo wells, the bike stalls (real soft like, too). Kicked it about 20 times, then pulled the spark plug. Was pretty fouled, so was gonna replace it, but spares were back at camp. Put plug back in, kicked it a few more times, engine locks hard

Push bike back a mile or so under the baking sun, till I get to where the truck can get me. Sit out the rest of the day. Except for the time I went out on my cousins bike for a quick spin and ran into a little kid (this was a pretty bad trip for me).

Upon pulling it apart, it looks like the wristpin bearing fell apart (I assumed this would be it, because upon some research, it seems an extra vibrate-y engine could mean a worn wrist-pin), and the engine didn't take too kindly to that. Check out the pics.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/gallery/sharing/shareRedirectSwitchBoard.jsp?token=495937583214%3A868235823

Anyway, a new cylinder for this bike is hella expensive, and that's not the only problem. Even without the cylinder/piston on there, the crank locks up at the bottom of the stroke (spins free otherwise). I'm gonna split the case tomorrow I believe (gonna weld together my own case puller for it) and see if the crank and case are salvageable. If they are, I still don't want to spend the money for a new cylinder, so I've been looking at some sleeve kits. It seems I can get a combo sleeve/piston kit for much cheaper, which might make it worth it, if I can free up the crank.

So, assuming I can free up the crank, I was wondering what the best course of action is. The cylinder is pretty toasted, as is the head, but I think I can get the top end done for ~$600 using a sleeve, which would be well worth it I think if I don't have to do much to the crank. I could also part out the bike, and get a newer ktm 300, which would be better for parts availability, and the tight technical stuff I like. I also have been thinking of buying a 300 engine and dropping it onto the frame I have (I like my bike set-up).

Are sleeves any good? The one I might get would be a wiseco, with a wiseco piston kit. If nothing else, I can part out the bike, and pull apart the engine just because it would be interesting to me. Besides, I'm sure that I could sell some of the parts from inside it. Still has a perfectly good tranny, and everything else on the bike is pretty top notch.

[zilla]

Back in the day just about every good dirtbike had a sleeved cylinder.. You bored it out till you ran out of room and then re-sleeved and installed a new piston.. I have also found that a bike will get to a point of diminishing returns.. Might be time to upgrade.. Just depends on the cost.. I am betting from what you posted that the bottom end is toast as well.. And if you are gonna do the bottom end might as well do the end beearings etc.. That all adds up to $$$$...

[Toadmeister00]

I would send those cylinder pics to either Millenium or Powerseal and ask them if it's repairable (I'm betting that it is). I think if you can have the cylinder repaired and have the crank rebuilt by www.cookseycrank.com you may be able to get it going again without breaking the bank. Cooksey should be able to supply you with bearings and gaskets and whatever else you may need.

That bike isn't going to be worth a whole lot parted out, especially considering the condition of the most valuable part, the motor.

[fender bender 59]

That cylinder is repairable.. My C clip jumped out and it was worse than yours. Millenium removed the plating welded up the gouging and replated it. Got it back within two weeks

[highmarker]

Vibration was probably your crank, possibly big end bearing, why it locks up when you turn it.

[KTM-548cc]

theres no such thing as a non repairable jug. yours is definatly fixable. even if the rod broke and poked a hole through the side of the jug it still could be fixed. your at a disadvantage because ktm wants a arm and leg for their parts, so buying stuff new is usually not a option. if that was a cr250 jug you could go get a new one for the same price or cheaper than what it would cost to fix, thats why people alot of times just get a new one. should be no more than $300 to weld/replate from millenium.

[Exbuhe]

Thanks for the advise everyone. I will send in the pictures of the top end to get a quote. It looks like Millennium does head resurfaces to, which would be necessary.

To ship my crank to Cooksey, does he just want the complete bottom end, or would he prefer the case to be split prior to shipping? It looks like he quotes prices up to 300 sized motors, but I imagine it wouldn't be too much trouble for him to do a 380, cause he does his own fabrication, right? just getting the bearing kit would be trouble.

[KTM-548cc]

your head looks rough. real rough. check ebay for a good used one or join ktmtalk and you get %15 off parts. new one about $150 to your door

[pjk380]

If you are able to salvage the head, you should check into getting the head modded (reshaped) and also see about having the correct squish set. This will help clean up the jetting and make it run nice and crisp. Contact James at Cycle Improvements, they are in Canada. They are friendly and know what they are doing with a 380. They worked wonders on my 380 as well as others. Unfortunately they are not cheap, but if you are able to get it all back together and plan on keeping the bike, you might find it worth it.

I highly recommend giving them a call and let them know your situation. Good Luck!

[Exbuhe]

I like the idea of getting a new head, looks cheaper too, over getting it re-milled. I'm emailing the companies and seeing what they can do for me, and I'll let you guys know what I decide to do. If I can get everything fixed for under $800, I'll probably go ahead with it.

As far as a new piston goes, should I just have Millennium or Powerseal provide one with the re-milling job, or should I get one on my own separately? I would probably get an OEM or Wiseco piston. I know that at least Wiseco offers both 78 and 79mm pistons.

[KTM-548cc]

problem with your head is the gouges are very deep. the whole dome would need alot of machine work and the mating surface would then need machining also to off set the material you removed from the dome and the oring grooves would need to be cut back in. your looking at easily $150 to do all that. like i said before just buy a new head or find a good used one thats in nice shape

[Exbuhe]

Alright, Powerseal has responded, and so has Cooksey. I'm looking at $800 for a bottom end re-build, and about $450 for the top end rebuild from Powerseal. I imagine Millennium's price is not that different. The question at this point is, is it worth it to rebuild the engine? The bike is pretty useless without it, but I could probably get a few hundred dollars in parts from the rest of the bike, as well as keep some backup parts if I need them. How much would a KTM 380 with a newly rebuilt crank, and a newly rebuilt top end with a Wiseco piston kit go for on the market? I got the bike for $2100, and the only major money I've put into it is a Clarke desert tank for $160. If I can sell the bike for say, $2000, I would probably make about as much money as just parting out the rest of the bike. How much value does a new engine rebuild like this add to a bike? Could I go as high as $2800?

[fast525]

It seems to me like it might be time to put the old girl down. Searching for 380s for sale I only see a few that crack 2K and they look show room new. If you clean ever thing up really well, and take good pictures you could easily make well over $1000 for the parts you have there. Make sure to post all parts every where you can, KTM-Talks part out section, Ebay, Craigslist(their national search is great for parts), and here on Thumpertalk. If you take your time and do it right you can be on your way to a newer 300. Best of luck on which ever decision you make.

[JoeMcLaughlin]

To re-build or not is going to be your choice alone. You gota ask yourself how much you like that engine. Just so you know your options, you can install a 250 or 300 engine of the same era into that frame.

Joe.........

[ktmfred300]

That motor needs more than a topend. Lower rod is done and so are the mains. Do it all don't kid yourself. Thats bearing debri on the piston and head. And your jetting needs to be fatter by the look of the piston. There isn't any wash coming down the sides of the piston. If you do the labor it should be under $1000.00 and you would have a new motor.

[Exbuhe]

Well, here the old (like '99 old with no motor rebuild) KTM 380s are going for about $2000 solid. Also, I've seen the motors alone go for $1400 on ebay, so I could probably at least break even. And hell, I could even keep the bike after rebuilding the engine. I have considered getting a 300 engine from the same era and putting it in the bike, giving me the smaller engine I want and I would get to keep the same chassis set-up, but I think if I get a different 300 engine, I want it to be off the newer versions of the bike along with the newer frames.

Anyway, it will be a long time before I have to make the decision of what to do with my money and this bike, because I have to make the money first ? 10$/hour takes a while to do that. I'm not able to ride for a few months anyway, cause I'm in college away from my bike, so a lot of the decision will be made by whether I have the money by the time summer starts up again anyway. I appreciate everyone's advice, and thank you for your time. If you have any last tidbits to throw in, I'm open to everyones' views. If I do decide to do the engine rebuild here in a couple months, I'll see about updating you guys, throwing up some pics, and letting you know how it goes.

Thanks again.

[ranchopower]

Whatever lubricant was used was not up to the task.

I just finished a ride yesterday all day and at the end

of the day my buddy roasted his KX250 about a mile

away from home, almost made it home.

I bet his piston looks the same.

He went cheap yesterday morning and bought some

Cheap gas station 2smoke oil and mixed it 40:1

The bottle said "Protects like no other" LOL

Javier