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To Clean A Chain

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Actually, all the stretch occurs due to pin/bushing wear. My DID X-ring chain is pushing 150 hours and there is no stretch when the chain is measured over 17 pins. A new chain measures 10" over 17 pins and my chain still measures 10", but the outer rollers are getting very loose.

a buddy of mine is one of the "no lube" guys, and the bushings start breaking off his x-ring chains at about 40-50 hours. I tried to tell him the outer rollers need lube, but he's stubborn and thinks that's normal.

Edited by CamP

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Actually, all the stretch occurs due to pin/bushing wear. My DID X-ring chain is pushing 150 hours and there is no stretch when the chain is measured over 17 pins. A new chain measures 10" over 17 pins and my chain still measures 10", but the outer rollers are getting very loose.

a buddy of mine is one of the "no lube" guys, and the bushings start breaking off his x-ring chains at about 40-50 hours. I tried to tell him the outer rollers need lube, but he's stubborn and thinks that's normal.

I use only WD40 on o-ring chains.

I've been running o-ring chains on bikes for many years.

I've run exactly one non o-ring chain on one bike in many years, and it is still on the bike (it does get lubed before each ride with sticky crap)

I have never run a chain to the point where the bushings start breaking.

I get a couple of years out of a chain which equates to somewhere in the 250 hour range.

I run 12 months per year, with at least 9 months in wet, muddy, clay, sloppy conditions.

If you actually know someone who is only getting 40-50 hours out of a chain before the bushings are breaking, I don't know what to say because it contradicts everything I know to be true.

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Actually, all the stretch occurs due to pin/bushing wear. My DID X-ring chain is pushing 150 hours and there is no stretch when the chain is measured over 17 pins. A new chain measures 10" over 17 pins and my chain still measures 10", but the outer rollers are getting very loose.

a buddy of mine is one of the "no lube" guys, and the bushings start breaking off his x-ring chains at about 40-50 hours. I tried to tell him the outer rollers need lube, but he's stubborn and thinks that's normal.

negative.. the pin and INSIDE of the bushing does not wear, or if it does it is a crazy small amount. The pin and inside of the bushing is SEALED. If one were to view the chain cutaway i posted earlier, you can see this. It is VERY easy to see the roller and outer bushing is what wears with nothing more than moving it with your finger and thumb. As a chain wears, the roller becomes thinner. This is due to the fact that the roller IS NOT SEALED. :smirk: THe wear occurs on the OUTSIDE of the bushing (the part making contact with the inside of the roller) and the roller itself. When your measuring the chain, it isn't the pin wear that makes it longer, it is the bushings and roller getting smaller. You can see this movement when you lay the chain out on the concrete and push and pull the chain..

Furthermore, the roller doesn't even "roll" on the sprocket if both the chain and sprocket are in good shape. Once the roller meets the sprocket, the roller simply comes off the sprocket as the wheel rotates. The rollers spin as they slide over the swingarm chain guide, and the lower chain guide in front of the rear sprocket. This is an easy experiment, put a paint dot on the top of a roller that is on the rear sprocket.. spin the rear wheel back and forth a bit.. the Roller will REMAIN in the SAME spot :bonk:

It is my firm belief that sticky lubes that attract dirt and the dirt gets wedged between the sprockt teeth and the roller, HASTENS WEAR of the sprockt and the rollers.. which leads to chain "stretch" (although chains don't stretch, they get longer when pulled taught as rollers and bushings wear).

ANOTHER test to prove pins don't wear but rollers do, is next time you remove the chain.. feel for play in the master link pin as it slides in. there ain't any.

Edited by MELK-MAN

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negative.. the pin and INSIDE of the bushing does not wear, or if it does it is a crazy small amount. The pin and inside of the bushing is SEALED. If one were to view the chain cutaway i posted earlier, you can see this. It is VERY easy to see the roller and outer bushing is what wears with nothing more than moving it with your finger and thumb. As a chain wears, the roller becomes thinner. This is due to the fact that the roller IS NOT SEALED. :smirk: THe wear occurs on the OUTSIDE of the bushing (the part making contact with the inside of the roller) and the roller itself. When your measuring the chain, it isn't the pin wear that makes it longer, it is the bushings and roller getting smaller. You can see this movement when you lay the chain out on the concrete and push and pull the chain..

Furthermore, the roller doesn't even "roll" on the sprocket if both the chain and sprocket are in good shape. Once the roller meets the sprocket, the roller simply comes off the sprocket as the wheel rotates. The rollers spin as they slide over the swingarm chain guide, and the lower chain guide in front of the rear sprocket. This is an easy experiment, put a paint dot on the top of a roller that is on the rear sprocket.. spin the rear wheel back and forth a bit.. the Roller will REMAIN in the SAME spot :bonk:

It is my firm belief that sticky lubes that attract dirt and the dirt gets wedged between the sprockt teeth and the roller, HASTENS WEAR of the sprockt and the rollers.. which leads to chain "stretch" (although chains don't stretch, they get longer when pulled taught as rollers and bushings wear).

ANOTHER test to prove pins don't wear but rollers do, is next time you remove the chain.. feel for play in the master link pin as it slides in. there ain't any.

On this point, I have to disagree, and the test is very simple.

Grab any new chain that has been run for a short time to take all of the "stretch" out of the chain and measure lead edge to lead edge on any number of pins (more pins makes it easier to get an accurate measurement).

Now measure the lead edge to lead edge of the same number of pins on a well worn chain.

You will find that the pin to pin dimension increases as the chain wears, and this is only due to pin/bushing wear at the pin to bushing bearing surface.

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On this point, I have to disagree, and the test is very simple.

Grab any new chain that has been run for a short time to take all of the "stretch" out of the chain and measure lead edge to lead edge on any number of pins (more pins makes it easier to get an accurate measurement).

Now measure the lead edge to lead edge of the same number of pins on a well worn chain.

You will find that the pin to pin dimension increases as the chain wears, and this is only due to pin/bushing wear at the pin to bushing bearing surface.

your not reading my post.. we all know that a chain gets longer as it wears. I have stated that. but it is NOT because the pins wear.. it is becaue the roller and the outside of the bushing wear. This area is NOT sealed as the pin, and inside of the bushing is. As i stated earlier, on a chain with lots of hours, take the roller of a link in your thumb and forefinger. It clearly moves up and down because it is worn down, as is the outer portion of the bushing this roller riders on. In fact, on a dry chain, you can SEE the rollers jump up and down if you shake the chain :smirk: THIS is why a chain is longer, and literally "moves" on the concrete floor when you push and pull it as it's laid out in a straight line. As i added to my post above yours, the TEST that pins DON'T wear on an O-RING chain is this.. On a well worn chain, slide the master link in and out. Feel any play?? nope.. thats cause the pins are SEALED unless your o-rings are damaged.

Also, a brand new chain has so much grease applied to it, you have to move the adjusters in a bit or you will think the chain is too tight. How do i know it's the grease that is making the chain tight?? because i have adjusted chains with grease, then without ever running the bike, i have wiped all the grease off and had sufficient play.

Edited by MELK-MAN

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your not reading my post.. we all know that a chain gets longer as it wears. I have stated that. but it is NOT because the pins wear.. it is becaue the roller and the outside of the bushing wear. This area is NOT sealed as the pin, and inside of the bushing is. As i stated earlier, on a chain with lots of hours, take the roller of a link in your thumb and forefinger. It clearly moves up and down because it is worn down, as is the outer portion of the bushing this roller riders on. In fact, on a dry chain, you can SEE the rollers jump up and down if you shake the chain :smirk: THIS is why a chain is longer, and literally "moves" on the concrete floor when you push and pull it as it's laid out in a straight line. As i added to my post above yours, the TEST that pins DON'T wear on an O-RING chain is this.. On a well worn chain, slide the master link in and out. Feel any play?? nope.. thats cause the pins are SEALED unless your o-rings are damaged.

Also, a brand new chain has so much grease applied to it, you have to move the adjusters in a bit or you will think the chain is too tight. How do i know it's the grease that is making the chain tight?? because i have adjusted chains with grease, then without ever running the bike, i have wiped all the grease off and had sufficient play.

The pin to pin distance on any chain cannot increase unless the pin/bushing bearing surface wears.

External roller and bushing surface wear cannot affect the pin to pin dimension.

Roller chain wear gauges measure the pin to pin dimension.

We all make mistakes.

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The pin to pin distance on any chain cannot increase unless the pin/bushing bearing surface wears.

External roller and bushing surface wear cannot affect the pin to pin dimension.

Roller chain wear gauges measure the pin to pin dimension.

We all make mistakes.

hmmmm.. you would be right on that point. My bad. A chain wouldn't even need rollers and bushings to stay connected. I just have never had one wear that way and need replaced. It is always the roller and outside of the bushings the roller rides on that wear after a couple hundred hours. The lube from the factory does stay inside the bushing on the pin however, but as you and CamP state it does wear and thus get longer due to bushing and pin wear.

Edited by MELK-MAN

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This thread is better than any "oil" or "grease" thread I have ever followed in any other forum. :smirk:

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Kerosene then scrub brush then pressure washer. Chain is pretty clean. Simple green seems like it would work great too.

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This thread is better than any "oil" or "grease" thread I have ever followed in any other forum. :smirk:

Yes!

.....AND SPONSORED BY......

Melk-man

His motorcycle chain knowledge

His UNCLE JOE

...AND...... WD40!!!!

Ok, just teasing but I just had too.... No hard feelings....

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Yes!

.....AND SPONSORED BY......

Melk-man

His motorcycle chain knowledge

His UNCLE JOE

...AND...... WD40!!!!

Ok, just teasing but I just had too.... No hard feelings....

lol..not at all. Difinatly wrong on that 1 point and freely admit it :bonk:

No bs though about great Uncle Joe. I remember as a little kid BOXES of wd40 all over my grandads basement and garage when Joe would visit him and drop them off.

Still sticking to my guns though about sticky lubes causing as much damage to the sprocket, roller and outside of the bushing beneath the roller from attracting dirt. That isn't just speculation, that is from 33 roadrace championships and 20hours a week on a crf450r for the past 5 years using nothing but wd40 on the chain, never any other cleaner.

:smirk:

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I certainly look at WD40 in a whole new light now. :bonk: Nah, but really, I have tried the WD40/shout method on the wife and kid's bike and will try something different on one of the other bikes too. I still do not have the guts to just not even lube the chain on the track bike....just....cant....do it (struggling sound...like a man trying to deny himself a beer when he's thirsty).

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I have wasted more time following this thread than a new chain/sprocket set would cost. Opportunity cost!

.. do a search and read the 1,148 OTHER "how do i clean my chain" threads.. THAT is serious time wasting. i blame the guy that started this one. LOL :bonk: i just can't help myself.

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I use only WD40 on o-ring chains.

I'm on the WD-40 bandwagon too. Replaced my 450X chain with a factory o-ring just under two years ago. Have +/-2000 miles on it and only adjusted once. Mainly ST's with some fast wide open on the throttle hard stuff mixed in. All sand with a bit of mud mixed in for good measure.

The WD-40 method, there is no need to clean the chain. It stays clean.

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Take your chain off and throw it in a bucket

Pour kerosene on it, let it sit for a while, about 10 minutes

Then use a nice, stiff brush and scrub it

Put it on your bike and spray it down with your favorite chain lube.

It will look brand new!

I just done this to my NEW RKmxu O-ring chain about an hour ago. Thos new RK O-Ring chains have that real sticky grease on them that will pick up all the dust and grime at the track and leave the new gold chain looking nasty.

I put the chain down in some kerosene and immediantely you could see the sticky grease coming right off. I let it sit for about 10 mins and then took a toof brush and scrubed it on both sides and on top and bottom(took about five mins roughly).

Took the chain out of the bucket and hosed it offf with a garden hose and wiped it down and sprayed some WD-40 on a rag and wiped the chain down with it. It is hanging up in the shop right now drying a bit until I put it on with new sprokets tommorow.

It Looks so bright and shiny now form how it was before I done this. That Gold really shines now!

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I just done this to my NEW RKmxu O-ring chain about an hour ago. Thos new RK O-Ring chains have that real sticky grease on them that will pick up all the dust and grime at the track and leave the new gold chain looking nasty.

I put the chain down in some kerosene and immediantely you could see the sticky grease coming right off. I let it sit for about 10 mins and then took a toof brush and scrubed it on both sides and on top and bottom(took about five mins roughly).

Took the chain out of the bucket and hosed it offf with a garden hose and wiped it down and sprayed some WD-40 on a rag and wiped the chain down with it. It is hanging up in the shop right now drying a bit until I put it on with new sprokets tommorow.

It Looks so bright and shiny now form how it was before I done this. That Gold really shines now!

Sweet, glad it worked for you, I basically did the same thing, except I just dried off the chain, no wd40, probably should have though.

Edited by LittleSeanX

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