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Thats a good idea and they didnt delete your post its still on there wall

We should get aton of people to like your post

Edited by Thabreit

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I don't think Suzuki dirtbikes will be around for much longer! Putting millions into R&D to build a bike that "might" sell is a huge gamble that I don't think Suzuki can or wants to take. If the bike sells, great, but if it doesn't, you could lose a lot more then what you came with.

A company like KTM doesn't gamble, they take risks, small ones granted but virtually every risk they have taken has been very calculated. The 350 was a prime example of that, it might not have worked as well in pro racing but look how many people dont pro race!? The 350 was/is KTMs biggest selling motorcycle. They also listen to feedback from various sources and make changes slowly. The changes they do make, lots of them can be transfered from on bike to the next starting with the 125 all the way up the the 500, and those same parts also fit bikes from earlier years. Unfourtanly, Suzuki just can't compete and it's not because they aren't capable of it, it's because they don't want to!

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(sarcasm first)

Pete, you are a men of men! One of these days one of us is going to have to cross the Mississippi, cuz as they saying goes "we need to ride". I've been out to AZ a few times but never rode there. Although here in Michigan we do have some things you might not see very often in the desert. Like we have these things made out of wood stuck right into the ground all over the place, they have all kinds of little green things on the upper reaches and we call them "trees" (feel free to repeat that). We also have areas were there's all kinds of water just laying on the ground, we call them "lakes". Sometimes the water is actually moving!, we call those "rivers". These obstacles are very common in Michigan and I'm sure that anyone of your bikes would love to take an eastern vacation and experience them.

(back to the real world)

It seems that my Facebook post is still there!, so the Suzuki marketing guys might actually be reading this thread (I did link it). That said, my intent here is not to slam anyone only to point out that dedicated Suzuki owners are forced to switch over to other OEM's because of a lack of offerings by Suzuki. And it's not idle chatter either, as I posted a picture of the bike that I bought only to show that I was completely serious about buying a new bike and that it would have been an off-road Suzuki (300, 2 stroke, 6 speed ~ preferred) had they actually offered one. For what it's worth, the KTM should be worn out in about 2 years, so the hour meter is ticking, hopefully Suzuki will have something by then.

Edited by zig06

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(sarcasm first)

Pete, your are a men of men! One of these days one of us is going to have to cross the Mississippi, cuz as they saying goes "we need to ride". I've been out to AZ a few times but never rode there. Although here in Michigan we do have some things you might not see very often in the desert. Like we have these things made out of wood stuck right into the ground all over the place, they have all kinds of little green things on the upper reaches and we call them "trees" (feel free to repeat that). We also have areas were there's all kinds of water just laying on the ground, we call them "lakes". Sometimes the water is actually moving!, we call those "rivers". These obstacles are very common in Michigan and I'm sure that anyone of your bikes would love to take an eastern vacation and experience them.

(back to the real world)

It seems that my Facebook post is still there!, so the Suzuki marketing guys might actually be reading this thread (I did link it). That said, my intent here is not to slam anyone only to point out that dedicated Suzuki owners are forced to switch over to other OEM's because of a lack of offerings by Suzuki. And it's not idle chatter either, as I posted a picture of the bike that I bought only to show that I was completely serious about buying a new bike and that it would have been an off-road Suzuki (300, 2 stroke, 6 speed ~ preferred) had they actually offered one. For what it's worth, the KTM should be worn out in about 2 years, so the hour meter is ticking, hopefully Suzuki will have something by then.

Not sure what to do when there's more than a few inches of water, but then you've probably never slammed into a 15 foot tall cactus! Lol! Enjoy that 300 and I don't think you will regret a single minute once you get it dialed in!

I will always be a Suzuki fan especially the two stroke! I would like to recommend that if Suzuki wanted to get back in the 2 stroke market that they jump back in "big" and even offer a true big bore! Yes, we are talking 500cc.

I never left Suzuki... they left me! I have no real power to convince the powers that be other than to vote with my wallet.

One of the best bikes I ever owned was an air cooled 1976 RM370! None of the water cooled extra weight and that thing screamed! Okay, now I'm dating myself!

Anyway I've owned a few Yamahas too and all of them had me walking back to the truck at some point so I can't go blue! Blue left a bad taste!

Kawasaki made the same decision. I could only get what I wanted by buying the KX500AF from Service Honda. And speaking of Honda... them too!

There just was no other choice for me but to jump ship if I wanted a modern two stroke!

Suzuki! I believe there is still a strong market for 2 strokes even if you now have to compete against a superior product... KTM!

Edited by rmzpegger

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I hate to say it but if your on the line on a 2008 rm 250 and a 2012 ktm pulls up next to you ,its like bringinga knife to a gunfight ..

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(sarcasm first)

Pete, you are a men of men! One of these days one of us is going to have to cross the Mississippi, cuz as they saying goes "we need to ride". I've been out to AZ a few times but never rode there. Although here in Michigan we do have some things you might not see very often in the desert. Like we have these things made out of wood stuck right into the ground all over the place, they have all kinds of little green things on the upper reaches and we call them "trees" (feel free to repeat that). We also have areas were there's all kinds of water just laying on the ground, we call them "lakes". Sometimes the water is actually moving!, we call those "rivers". These obstacles are very common in Michigan and I'm sure that anyone of your bikes would love to take an eastern vacation and experience them.

(back to the real world)

It seems that my Facebook post is still there!, so the Suzuki marketing guys might actually be reading this thread (I did link it). That said, my intent here is not to slam anyone only to point out that dedicated Suzuki owners are forced to switch over to other OEM's because of a lack of offerings by Suzuki. And it's not idle chatter either, as I posted a picture of the bike that I bought only to show that I was completely serious about buying a new bike and that it would have been an off-road Suzuki (300, 2 stroke, 6 speed ~ preferred) had they actually offered one. For what it's worth, the KTM should be worn out in about 2 years, so the hour meter is ticking, hopefully Suzuki will have something by then.

Hey Zig! This is little cactus not the big stuff! It's a place called Laughlin not to far from Vegas! You sure you want to cross the Mississippi? Just kidding! Enjoy the Vid!

http://contour.com/stories/frevent-french-for-pin-cushion

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Your post was not pulled.They also respond to it :smirk:

Your right! ~ here's a link to that thread: http://www.facebook....30448656&type=1

Whom ever is responding is being clear, honest and professional and that's all I can ask for. Hopefully he (or she) really does forward this on to upper management, anything that brings attention to the 2 stroke riders here in the US (and world wide) is a good thing.

I hate to say it but if your on the line on a 2008 rm 250 and a 2012 ktm pulls up next to you, its like bringing a knife to a gunfight ..

In an MX race you are right, but in a woods race or a Michigan Hare Scramble race ~ I would take that bet. And for that matter with a 6 speed gear box any race that has a really high speed section it would be a clear advantage to the KTM. In a nut shell, the KTM XC's are very good at hooking up and pulling off the bottom ~ sort of like a 4 stroke. More directly, my RM would spin and dig where the KTM would hook up and pull away. And what that means is that in a tight single track race, even though you might be a bike length faster in the straights (RM vs. XC), you would be losing that and maybe more comming out of every turn.

Again, I really do not want to argue the merits of a Suzuki vs. a KTM dirt bike. I only want to point out that as a life time Suzuki guy I bought a KTM only because Suzuki abandoned the off-road 2 stroke market. If they produced a 300cc 2 stroke 6 speed dirt bike, even if it cost more than the KTM ~ I would have bought it. And for what it's worth, a 300cc 2 stroke actually makes sense in their line up as it will not directly compete with anything in their current line up.

Edited by zig06

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Hey Zig! This is little cactus not the big stuff! It's a place called Laughlin not to far from Vegas! You sure you want to cross the Mississippi? Just kidding! Enjoy the Vid!

http://contour.com/s...for-pin-cushion

OUCH!! Ok, your going to have to head east! Nothing like falling off your bike and suddenly getting velcro'd to the trail. Hope your buddy came out of that ok and you'll have to forgive me but I did laugh a few times during the video. Especially when he needed attention in an area that would normally have cost him a few drinks and 20 bucks... smile_hah.gif

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Your right! ~ here's a link to that thread: http://www.facebook....30448656&type=1

Whom ever is responding is being clear, honest and professional and that's all I can ask for. Hopefully he (or she) really does forward this on to upper management, anything that brings attention to the 2 stroke riders here in the US (and world wide) is a good thing.

.

Well if Suzuki upper management is reading this.....

For starters bring in the Euro spec RM 125's and 250"s immediately! You're already producing them, why not ship a container N America's way???

The 125 class is reviving in MX. Who's going to fill that gap? Yamaha and KTM?

For the future...

Develop DI 2 strokes!!!!

85's, 125's, 250's, 300's

DI 2 strokes are the way of the future and the first manufacturer that dives on board is the manufacturer of the future IMO.

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RIDE REPORT:

Ok, it's been a few months and with several rides on the KayTeeEm, so I finally feel like I can really comment on how a life long RM rider is adjusting to life on a pumkin. First off, let me remind everyone that I do not race MX anymore, I do hare scrambles and ORV (single track) trail rides. So in many ways the type of riding that I do does favor an off road bike not an MX bike.

In the RM's corner:

It still feels lighter than the KTM, mostly because it does not have a battery and starter, and it is an inch or more physically shorter. Europeans still like tall bikes I guess. In deep sand the RM is always a simple "fan the clutch" away from instant full power, which can be useful in a sticky situation or when you need to roost someone to get them off your tail. It's also hard to say, maybe I'm just use to RM's, but the RM just feels more complete or engineered. Granted the design of my old '08 started in '01 and really didn't change much, the current '12 KTM 300XC-w chassis is only 2 years old.

In KTM's corner:

Electric start!, honestly ~ I've only kicked started it twice since I bought it. Stability, in deep sandy turns it tracks better, partly because of the torque of the 300 and partly from the basic chassis setup. On an MX track I might not feel the same, but in Michigan's woods and endless miles of deep sandy trails this is a big deal. Engine power, granted my KTM is a completely stock XC-w 300 and the RM was "mostly" stock (reeds and pipe), but still, the KTM can pull 4th gear all day long in trails that my RM had me working 2nd and 3rd just to keep in from bogging. And let's not forget the hydraulic clutch, in a word ~ fantastic! It's so much easier to use, plus the lever distance to the bar is adjustable so grabbing it is effortless. Yes, your RM needs one too.

THE FINAL SCORE:

In many ways it's a split decision. The RM is lighter, but the KTM has electric start. The KTM is more stable, but the RM is a more compact package. In the end the power of the KTM 300 (with the "RED" PV spring) is just too much for the RM to over come. But it's not a peak power deal, stock for stock my old RM could out drag race the KTM. But as I mentioned before, I can use 4th gear all day long and it'll pull from a walking pace without a wimper or drama, it's almost like not even needing 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear ~ it's crazy. Plus the KTM's hydraulic clutch, side access air box and the electric start pay huge dividens on and off the trail.

YOU CAN SEE WHERE I'M GOING:

If Suzuki and KTM could come together and put a KTM engine into the Suzuki RM250 (two stroke) chassis, then I believe that we would have the perfect bike. That said, because you cannot buy a new RM250 (in the US anyways) but you can buy a new KTM-300XC-w just like mine then the choice is simple ~ get the KTM and support two strokes! They only listen to us when we open our wallets, so think carefully before you buy your next ride.

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I've had a number of RM's over the years.

Raced vintage MX a long time ago on a '81 RM250 and even won a state title with it:

81%20RM250.JPG

Spent a number of years on a 1990 RM250, an excellent machine in it's own right:

90%20RM250%20Aug03bb.jpg

Loved my '02 RM250:

2002%20RM250%20R25.jpg

And loved my '08 RM250 even more:

08_i_r.jpg

Had a ball with my '96 RMX:

96rmx250b.jpg

And I even tried the 4 stroke thing on a '08 RMZ450:

08_RMZ450_Aug_09_L.jpg

I do still have a DRZ that I use for saving gas going to work and the occasional dual sport run:

DRZ_Oct%202011_b_r.jpg

But now that Suzuki has abandoned the 2 stroke market I'm forced to change colors. If they offered a "new" RMX-250 (or 300 ...) or maybe even tried to get the RMX-450 back into the US I might have been swayed. But they haven't so now it's time for me to vote with my wallet and upgrade:

So here it is, a 2012 KTM-300XC-w !!! Picked it up yesterday, reading the manual now, but a quick ride around the yard pegged the fun-meter!

2012%20KTM300XC-W%20Feb%202012_b_r.jpg

Sorry Suzuki, I just can't wait anymore.

Ive always has Suzuki's since the late 80's. Dirt/street...Always Suzuki. Im curious, did you ever consider an Eric Gorr 300 kit on a 2005+ zook ? Seems cheaper and get to keep the handling!

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Ive always has Suzuki's since the late 80's. Dirt/street...Always Suzuki. Im curious, did you ever consider an Eric Gorr 300 kit on a 2005+ zook ? Seems cheaper and get to keep the handling!

Looks like I need to update the links to my original pictures....

John45,

I did seriously consider a Gorr 300 kit. So when I put my '08 RM250 up for sale I set the price at higher than average and stuck to it. If it didn't sell then I was going to go that way. But factoring in the cost of the kit and that I was ready to switch over to HS racing and ORV trails then I would also have to have the suspension revalved. So the way the cost of everything worked out I was very close to the cost of a new bike. And I felt like making a statement too, so I voted with my wallet and bought a new two stroke.

Sure, I do miss my RM, but my KTM is making life easier and faster so I'm happy.

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i lol at the ktm's

the 350 was the biggest piece of shit ever made, everybody i know has had problems with them, huge problems

and then they say ktm still invests in 2strokes... please don't make me laugh!

the 300 maybe

but the 250's full cross 2strokes are a laugh... they only invest on the looks

all the reviews i have seen still put the yamaha on 1 for it's easy handling engine

the suz on 2 for it's excellent steering, and then the honda and kawi

ktm always comes in last, and that while the japanese have not changed their 2 stroke since

2005, and then they say ktm still invests in 2stroke

hahahahahahaaaa....

great pr from ktm, thats &%$#@!ing all

not saying the bikes suck, but they cannot compete with the japanese

and yes, so people are happy about their ktm; WOW It drives amazing!!!!

you know why??? it has standard wp suspension! no wonder people like it

put that suspension on a jap and suddenly the ktm would feel like crap

but the japs don't want to increase the price of their bike

1 positive thing about ktm 2stroke, lot's of room around the engine so it's easy to work on

for the rest.. ktm is overhyped

nothing can beat a japanese masterpiece

ow, and the reason why the japanese don't invest in 2stroke:

they are at their best point, you can't make a 2stroke anymore better except suspension

you should know a 90's 2 stroke and a new 2 stroke deliver the same amount of horsepower... the only thing you can change is it's power delivery through changes of powervalve and piston stroke

but yamaha has mastered that combination a long time ago..

the only new thing they can add is the injection, and i'm waiting for it

i'm sure that IF ktm brings a 2stroke injection, the japs will bring one too

and a better one! haha

i'm sorry for the negative post, but i really don't like ktm

i have had them all since i buy and sell mx bikes

and tested them all

they all have their faults, but i would always chose a jap before a ktm

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welink,

No problem with your post, as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That said we do not agree on several points but we can still ride together! :ride:

Were do we disagree?, well, nothing personal but here goes:

As far as power, my '90 RM250 was rated at 38 hp and my '08 was rated at 45 hp, the '08 also had a broader powerband so clearly power has changed (and improved) over the years. And the basic design of the '08 was completed in '04, so there's definitely room to improve since then. And while I do agree that on an MX track a Japanese 250 would give a modern KTM about all it can handle suspension wise, the newest 250SX also makes over 5 hp more than a YZ250, so engine wise the Japanese have fallen behind.

Also note that my '12 KTM300 XC-w will pull 4th gear in places that my '08 RM250 needed to be clutched in 3rd. In my honest opinion the only real reason why I still prefer the "feel" of my old RM is because it's more compact than my KTM. It's not a big difference but still noticable and that's enough to sway a rider (or two). Clearly, making the KTM 2 stroke chassis physically smaller should be a priority.

Beyond all of that, because you are in Europe you do not understand (nothing personal!) that Americans really can not buy a new Japanese 2 stroke 250 beyond a Yamaha YZ250, and they really haven't been updated in a meaningful way since '08 but the price has still gone up... So we either support a company that actually trys to sell a modern and competitive 2 stroke like KTM, or we have to switch over to riding a used bike ~ or worse ~ a 4 stroke... :devil:

Therefore, if enough of us switch over to KTM then maybe Japan will get the hint and start producing modern 2 strokes again. And a good way to do that is to buy a KTM 300 or what ever as they really are awesome bikes!

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i lol at the ktm's

the 350 was the biggest piece of shit ever made, everybody i know has had problems with them, huge problems

and then they say ktm still invests in 2strokes... please don't make me laugh!

the 300 maybe

but the 250's full cross 2strokes are a laugh... they only invest on the looks

all the reviews i have seen still put the yamaha on 1 for it's easy handling engine

the suz on 2 for it's excellent steering, and then the honda and kawi

ktm always comes in last, and that while the japanese have not changed their 2 stroke since

2005, and then they say ktm still invests in 2stroke

hahahahahahaaaa....

great pr from ktm, thats &%$#@!ing all

not saying the bikes suck, but they cannot compete with the japanese

and yes, so people are happy about their ktm; WOW It drives amazing!!!!

you know why??? it has standard wp suspension! no wonder people like it

put that suspension on a jap and suddenly the ktm would feel like crap

but the japs don't want to increase the price of their bike

1 positive thing about ktm 2stroke, lot's of room around the engine so it's easy to work on

for the rest.. ktm is overhyped

nothing can beat a japanese masterpiece

ow, and the reason why the japanese don't invest in 2stroke:

they are at their best point, you can't make a 2stroke anymore better except suspension

you should know a 90's 2 stroke and a new 2 stroke deliver the same amount of horsepower... the only thing you can change is it's power delivery through changes of powervalve and piston stroke

but yamaha has mastered that combination a long time ago..

the only new thing they can add is the injection, and i'm waiting for it

i'm sure that IF ktm brings a 2stroke injection, the japs will bring one too

and a better one! haha

i'm sorry for the negative post, but i really don't like ktm

i have had them all since i buy and sell mx bikes

and tested them all

they all have their faults, but i would always chose a jap before a ktm

Almost all of the top enduro and XC guys all over the world are on KTM and Husabergs... they must be doing it wrong. :devil::ride:

KTM 2 strokes are definitely still being invested in. Also I have not noticed any more problems with the 350 than any other modern 4 stroke. Btw, this is not a biased opinion as I have nothing but Japanese bikes in my garage, but your post was just ignorant.

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if you would read

you'd see i have nothing against the enduro's and the 300...

my 91 rm 250 was rated 42 hp.. maybe different sources

but 3hp over more then 10 years tells me enough...

and more hp is not always better, it's how it's delivered, so that's their last changes, the powervalve was changed to the yamaha type for better delivery, well smoother delivery, if it's better depends on your riding style

ow and the 350 problems here were seriously terrible... i must say it was only with ktm's made in holland

some of the problems...

-the seal from the valve stems was not right... too big, it went everywhere and as you can guess it didn't do his job, so the oil just wooshed in trough the valves

-waterpump case was not flat!!! yes indeed, not flat.. water would start leaking through the gasket, and you could change your gasket 100 times, wouldnt help since the surface was not flat

-clutch plates breaking

-faulty big end bearing

i must remember you that these problems all occured in the first riding hours! and seriously, in my competition, there was not 1 350 without problems (so that makes about 35 bikes)

i'm sure that bike handles and drives excellent, but that not's my point

i want quality

same with that aprilia 2 cylinder. awesome bike, bet it drives awesome too, but it also was full of problems, and they now decided to cancel the bike.. i'm sure that if you put some good gp riders on it and make it win championships, have a good pr agent, and everybody would want that aprilia, altough the quality sucks monkeyballs

and that is what i hate, ppl chosing a bike because it looks good, or because stewart can win with it, or cairoli can win with it

anywho enough bitching now :devil:

i can follow your point of chosing a brand that want's to evolve

but like i said before, i really don't see how they can improve a 2stroke?!

different powervalves, carbs, stroke/cylinder is like the only way, and they have done it all

the only thing left is the intake, go for a rotary intake or injection

i saw athena allready made a 2stroke injection!

more hp, less fuel, and cleaner; so what the hell are producers waiting for??????

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300's are for old lazy dudes and electric start is for quads. The W's are turds, same with the XC's in stock form. KTM only has one offering for racing; 250SX.

You do realize that the fact that your KTM pulls 4th has no merit since the bikes have different gearing along with final gear ratios. :devil:

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