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California Rowher Flats – Help Wanted!

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Hey Everybody,

I was out at Rowher Flats today and got to talking with one of the Rangers, Terry, who manages the trail system there. He mentioned that they really need some volunteers to organize together to help out with the trail system out at Rowher. Pretty basic stuff like providing input/feedback on trail conditions and repairs that are needed, helping out with trail maintenance . . . and get this . . . HELPING TO OPEN UP NEW TRAILS!!! Terry said he already has ideas/plans in the works for a new trail but will need a group/club that will be able to volunteer time in order to get the approval to do it. I’m pretty sure this is the trail that Hundy had told us about behind the gate over by Flat trail. He also mentioned changing the designation of a couple trails and creating new MC only trails . . . the switchbacks for example, he’d like to have it be MC only and leave it get as nasty as you guys want it to be!

I’m sure we could just post up a thread on the various boards and have a good turn out for a work day, but that would be too easy :smirk: apparently they really need the volunteers to organize together as a club/group so they can report the hours that the club is providing which results in money that they can use to add trails. Terry mentioned they are running on a skeleton crew out there, but that there is a ton of Green Sticker dollars coming from LA county and if he has the manpower, he can go to bat to get the approval and funding from the fund to open up some new trails.

So what do you guys think? . . . For many of us, Rowher is right in our backyard and is the place we frequent the most, sure would be nice to give back, have some input in what’s happening, and maybe even get some new trails to ride. I’ve never been in a formal “club” let alone helped to start one up, but I figure the first step would be to see who would be interested and able to assist. I figure once we have a list of volunteers, it should be pretty easy to decide what we’d like to call ourselves, get a cool graphic to go with the name, and present ourselves as a united group ready to help to the FS and go from there.

This is not a money making effort, and I’m frankly turned off by dues, meetings, and drama. But I don’t really think we’d need any of those things for this to work. Were all savvy enough to be here on the internet now, so why we couldn’t “meet” the same way, here online. No dues . . . we can just have a B.Y.O. policy (bring or buy your own) and if some exchange of money is required to be viewed as “official”, then dues can be whatever the cost is to cover the stickers or tee shirt with the club name on it. Hell, I wear my Kennedy Meadows shirt from the ADV ride all the time, and it was like 10 bucks . . . we should do something like that with a cool image!

Anybody interested?

P.S. – TT moderators . . . any assistance that you guys can offer would be appreciated, you may have experience/insight with some of this stuff.

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Hey Everybody,

I was out at Rowher Flats today and got to talking with one of the Rangers, Terry, who manages the trail system there. He mentioned that they really need some volunteers to organize together to help out with the trail system out at Rowher. Pretty basic stuff like providing input/feedback on trail conditions and repairs that are needed, helping out with trail maintenance . . . and get this . . . HELPING TO OPEN UP NEW TRAILS!!! Terry said he already has ideas/plans in the works for a new trail but will need a group/club that will be able to volunteer time in order to get the approval to do it. I’m pretty sure this is the trail that Hundy had told us about behind the gate over by Flat trail. He also mentioned changing the designation of a couple trails and creating new MC only trails . . . the switchbacks for example, he’d like to have it be MC only and leave it get as nasty as you guys want it to be!

I’m sure we could just post up a thread on the various boards and have a good turn out for a work day, but that would be too easy :smirk: apparently they really need the volunteers to organize together as a club/group so they can report the hours that the club is providing which results in money that they can use to add trails. Terry mentioned they are running on a skeleton crew out there, but that there is a ton of Green Sticker dollars coming from LA county and if he has the manpower, he can go to bat to get the approval and funding from the fund to open up some new trails.

So what do you guys think? . . . For many of us, Rowher is right in our backyard and is the place we frequent the most, sure would be nice to give back, have some input in what’s happening, and maybe even get some new trails to ride. I’ve never been in a formal “club” let alone helped to start one up, but I figure the first step would be to see who would be interested and able to assist. I figure once we have a list of volunteers, it should be pretty easy to decide what we’d like to call ourselves, get a cool graphic to go with the name, and present ourselves as a united group ready to help to the FS and go from there.

This is not a money making effort, and I’m frankly turned off by dues, meetings, and drama. But I don’t really think we’d need any of those things for this to work. Were all savvy enough to be here on the internet now, so why we couldn’t “meet” the same way, here online. No dues . . . we can just have a B.Y.O. policy (bring or buy your own) and if some exchange of money is required to be viewed as “official”, then dues can be whatever the cost is to cover the stickers or tee shirt with the club name on it. Hell, I wear my Kennedy Meadows shirt from the ADV ride all the time, and it was like 10 bucks . . . we should do something like that with a cool image!

Anybody interested?

P.S. – TT moderators . . . any assistance that you guys can offer would be appreciated, you may have experience/insight with some of this stuff.

Count me in.

My two cents:

I would like to know the Rangers level of involvement, commitment, and expectations of the end product, so we know what target to aim at, and what kind of manpower and management will be necessary to achieve our/their goals. I think that information is pivotal to executing simple, easily understood trail-making plans.

With that information in hand, we can create a team/teams with common goals, and be able to post the goals/plans and have volunteers more likely to come in/out of the process as they are needed.

If we put too much emphasis on the formation of a 'group', rather than the definition of goals, we will end up with a club of frustrated volunteers that are always questioning the process and the goals, rather than executing the tasks.

We need the Rangers to set their expectations of the volunteers early, and often.

OK, three cents.

Edited by Krannie

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I'm embarrased to say but I've never been to Rowher, and I live in Lancaster. Your idea sounds good to me, I'm interested.

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I thought the Shamrocks were the trail keepers at Rowher? If something was setup, I would help out. yes, cut some new Motorcycle only trails, without maintaining. keep them as narly as they can get, without maintaining.

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I thought the Shamrocks were the trail keepers at Rowher? If something was setup, I would help out. yes, cut some new Motorcycle only trails, without maintaining. keep them as narly as they can get, without maintaining.

:smirk:

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This is great news. I'll help out whenever possible. Rowher is a fun place to ride with some challenging trails, and like you said... right in our back yard.

Ed

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Count me in.

My two cents:

I would like to know the Rangers level of involvement, commitment, and expectations of the end product, so we know what target to aim at, and what kind of manpower and management will be necessary to achieve our/their goals. I think that information is pivotal to executing simple, easily understood trail-making plans.

With that information in hand, we can create a team/teams with common goals, and be able to post the goals/plans and have volunteers more likely to come in/out of the process as they are needed.

If we put too much emphasis on the formation of a 'group', rather than the definition of goals, we will end up with a club of frustrated volunteers that are always questioning the process and the goals, rather than executing the tasks.

We need the Rangers to set their expectations of the volunteers early, and often.

OK, three cents.

That's good advice, thanks Krannie, if there's a good number of people interested I'll follow up with Terry to obtain specifics around the goals/expecations/etc. He seemed motivited to carve the new trail, he mentioned the dozer is already it up top and needs to be brought down, and said he'd like to bring it down the new trail and carve it out, but he'll need volunteers to cut back the brush, mark the trail, and stuff like that. The feeling I got from him was, the trails that are there other than maybe a couple, are going to have to remain quad friendly, so they'll have to be wide enough and groomed just in case the quadtards get tired of donuts in the staging area. But if he has the support/funding, he'd like to get more MC focused trails opened up in addition to converting the switchbacks and maybe one other to MC only. Also he said he doesn't plan on maintaining Falls anymore. Terry seems to recognize that a lot of the more experienced and skilled riders do not like the way the trails are kept and is trying to come up with options that will satisfy those guys and bring them back. He mentioned they want to have stuff for everybody, they have the kids track and open area for the kids, plenty of trails for the quads, the new trials rock garden, the only thing that's missing is some single track and the FS seems to want to add some.

I thought the Shamrocks were the trail keepers at Rowher? If something was setup, I would help out. yes, cut some new Motorcycle only trails, without maintaining. keep them as narly as they can get, without maintaining.

Doesn't sound like the FS has been getting enough support/volunteer hours lately from the current club and needs additional help to get additional things open. I know how a lot of the guys around here feel about the way the trails at Rowher are overly groomed and too quad friendly, but I sure like the idea to open up more trails, and especially allow some true single track trails and hope to help make it happen.

Edited by schmo

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I would like to help. My riding time is pretty limited but I wouldn't mind giving up a ride day to go cut some trails.

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I will help on this, as much as I can depending on when this is going to be done and how much I am healed.

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Joe, let us know what the next step is, and what is needed.

It would be cool if we could cut the trails without the use of nothing but our dirtbikes. as in. they say, cut a trail from a to b, which is approved by them. point to the line, then say get on your bikes, line up, and follow one of the crazy riders, by staying in their track. even let them walk the trail and throw some flags.. and then say go for it. No tractors what's so ever. LOL. Edited by msgtretired
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It would be cool if we could cut the trails without the use of nothing but our dirtbikes. as in. they say, cut a trail from a to b, which is approved by them. point to the line, then say get on your bikes, line up, and follow one of the crazy riders, by staying in their track. even let them walk the trail and throw some flags.. and then say go for it. No tractors what's so ever. LOL.

We dont need no stinking tractor!!! That my my friend is the perfect double negative! It seems to me that we just need to follow each other to cut the trail. Then cut back the bushes and sort.

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It's called burning in a trail and that's the best way to do it. There's less damage done to the hillside thus less errosion. There are trails that have been around 30-40 years that we ride and we've never had to repair any of them. But they won't listen to that......It makes way to much sense. You don't really need to cut to much in the way of brush, just a little trimming that way the errosion is cut way back. These are true single track trails, not those miniture golf course trails they like to make. There are several of us that would love to help and that would be the least distructive most productive way to do it

Edited by SILENTSHOK
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It's called burning in a trail and that's the best way to do it. There's less damage done to the hillside thus less errosion. There are trails that have been around 30-40 years that we ride and we've never had to repair any of them. But they won't listen to that......It makes way to much sense. You don't really need to cut to much in the way of brush, just a little trimming that way the errosion is cut way back. These are true single track trails, not those miniture golf course trails they like to make. There are several of us that would love to help and that would be the least distructive most productive way to do it

Werd! I like that, miniature golf course trails :smirk: I like when people refer to blown out UTV trails as singletrack. I think miniature golf cart trails is appropriate.

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Let's try to focus this discussion on the topic of who is interested in pitching in with what the FS needs and ideas/suggestions on ways to organize together like the FS is looking for. If you're interested in participating, please post up so I can get an idea of how many volunteers are ready to help over to Terry and see what would be the next step.

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Let's try to focus this discussion on the topic of who is interested in pitching in with what the FS needs and ideas/suggestions on ways to organize together like the FS is looking for. If you're interested in participating, please post up so I can get an idea of how many volunteers are ready to help over to Terry and see what would be the next step.

The problem is Joe, if they want it done with that stupid trail tractor, I don't have any intention of helping. If they want to listen to reasonable suggestions and do it right, then I'm all for it. Cutting in trails is probably the worst thing they can do, if you notice all the water bars and concrete pieces they use......they try to mitigate the damage they do by making a total mess of the area.....I don't know how they come up with the ways they do things, but it's not right. The most trail maintenance I do is cutting fallen trees in the forested areas I like to ride. These are trails that see a lot more rain and snow than Rowher, yet we don't have to do any sort of water mitigation because we don't disturb the natural flow and vegetation. You take that piece of machinery through and area it removes the vegetation roots and all. Then digs into the hillside that has been formed over millions of years and moves the interlocking puzzle of dirt and rocks. Now when it rains the water moving over these cuts has a chance to work into the ground at greater rates, thus making the cuts/ruts that eventually make the trail unusable to all but the very skilled (that doesn't bother me) But then they will be back up there with that tonka toy moving more dirt and adding more water bars and pieces of concrete. Where if it's done right, you barely notice where the trail head is and hardly see where the trail is from even google earth.

As Krannie had stated earlier, I want to know what's up and if our words fall on deaf ears. If that's the case, they don't need my help.

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Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with a word that's been said.

Who knows . . . maybe the FS will take our thoughts and ideas into consideration, maybe they won't . . . maybe we'll get some trails designated as MC only, maybe we won't . . . maybe we'll be able to help get some new riding opportunities opened up, maybe we won't.

If your participation is contingent on things like this or if you are unable or unwilling to come to the table with a realistic attitude, understanding the system (and its flaws) that you'll be participating with . . . I totally understand, but this might not be right for you. I'm not about to make any guarantees, nor do I have the desire or patience to deal with the bitching that will certainly follow when hopes and desires are not met. It is what it is folks, I'm not here to support or defend . . . but our chances of improving the area are even worse if we are not involved. The FS is asking for help in the hopes of opening up new trails and making some others more MC friendly, it probably won't be exactly what everybody wants, but sure is refreshing to hear "new trail" when all we usually see are closed gates, piled up brush, and fence line. So if you're interested in pitching in regardless of whether it's helping to maintain a golf cart trail or burning in some new single track, then post up and be counted. If not that's cool too.

Edited by schmo

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Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with a word that's been said.

Who knows . . . maybe the FS will take our thoughts and ideas into consideration, maybe they won't . . . maybe we'll get some trails designated as MC only, maybe we won't . . . maybe we'll be able to help get some new riding opportunities opened up, maybe we won't.

If your participation is contingent on things like this or if you are unable or unwilling to come to the table with a realistic attitude, understanding the system (and its flaws) that you'll be participating with . . . I totally understand, but this might not be right for you. I'm not about to make any guarantees, nor do I have the desire or patience to deal with the bitching that will certainly follow when hopes and desires are not met. It is what it is folks, I'm not here to support or defend . . . but our chances of improving the area are even worse if we are not involved. The FS is asking for help in the hopes of opening up new trails and making some others more MC friendly, it probably won't be exactly what everybody wants, but sure is refreshing to hear "new trail" when all we usually see are closed gates, piled up brush, and fence line. So if you're interested in pitching in regardless of whether it's helping to maintain a golf cart trail or burning in some new single track, then post up and be counted. If not that's cool too.

Count me in.

My two cents:

I would like to know the Rangers level of involvement, commitment, and expectations of the end product, so we know what target to aim at, and what kind of manpower and management will be necessary to achieve our/their goals. I think that information is pivotal to executing simple, easily understood trail-making plans.

With that information in hand, we can create a team/teams with common goals, and be able to post the goals/plans and have volunteers more likely to come in/out of the process as they are needed.

If we put too much emphasis on the formation of a 'group', rather than the definition of goals, we will end up with a club of frustrated volunteers that are always questioning the process and the goals, rather than executing the tasks.

We need the Rangers to set their expectations of the volunteers early, and often.

OK, three cents.

Count me in on this schmo and I too agree completely with Krannie, goals, timelines and action items must be clearly defined and agreed upon by all parties involved to achive success and keep participants ingaged. I don't care if it's maintaining quad trails, burning in true single track or building cabanas in the staging areas, giving back to the area I ride the most makes the most sence! If you don't mind I'll post a link over on the Rohwer Flats Breakfast Klub thread and rally the troops. We've discussed this topic alot and I'm sure I can get the boys and girls on board.

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Count me in on this schmo and I too agree completely with Krannie, goals, timelines and action items must be clearly defined and agreed upon by all parties involved to achive success and keep participants ingaged. I don't care if it's maintaining quad trails, burning in true single track or building cabanas in the staging areas, giving back to the area I ride the most makes the most sence! If you don't mind I'll post a link over on the Rohwer Flats Breakfast Klub thread and rally the troops. We've discussed this topic alot and I'm sure I can get the boys and girls on board.

Thanks Klammer! You beat me to it . . . I was about to shoot you a PM over on ADV to see your thoughts as Terry mentioned that he's spoken with the RFBK crew about getting a group of volunteers together as well. I was thinking between the weekday riders over on ADV and the weekend riders over here on TT, we should be able to put a good group together. Please post up over there and let's see what type of interest is there and then we can circle back with Terry and see what we can do to get involved and help, define goals, etc.

I don't care if it's maintaining quad trails, burning in true single track or building cabanas in the staging areas, giving back to the area I ride the most makes the most sense!

Well said . . . my sentiments exactly!

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I'd like to suggest improving the trials area. I understand they've dumped some rocks out but have they set up sections? Or given some thought to actually how to arrange the rocks so they make for an excellent trials experience? Building sections that appeal to all lines (Novice to Pro) is difficult. But if the Rangers have already decided to allow it, as evidenced by the rock dump, then they'll probably have no problem with volunteers helping make it the best it can be.

There are many trials riders in Southern California and decent trials areas are scarce. If the Rowher area is good trials riders will use it. And if trials riders build it, it will be.

I can probably marshall up some resources through the Southern California Trials Association (SCTA). We have a Board meeting tonight (Tue, 7 Feb) and I'll bring it up as new business. I know several trials guys personally that are very close and I'm sure they would be thrilled to have a great trials area at Rowher.

Will let you guys know what the SCTA thinks.

One qualifier: we (SCTA) have a National Trial out at Cahuilla this May 19-20 and most of us will be working hard till then on the National ( http://www.socaltria...-natc-national/ ). Most help for Rowher would probably be this summer & fall.

Edited by Orangeroost

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