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have pw 50 need better suspension, not more power

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hi,

son rides a pw 50, He has out grown the suspension. Jumps stuff and rides over loges ect..that the suspension is just not up for. He just turned 6 and rides very well. What would be the next step in a bike that has better supension but not a lot more power. i am going to let him try out his sisters pw 80 to see if he gets the shifting down, but i already know the suspension on that bike will not handle his riding either. He rides circles around his sister. New KTM;s and such are not in the budget right now and he is not ready for a kx 65.

didnt ktm make a air cooled 50 without gears? or at least without a clutch. How much more power do the racing 50's have compared to a pw 50. He has no fear and and is only 6 so he does not have the maturity yet for me to let him on a bike that can go over 30 mph or so. He rides the pw 50 full throtle on open ground as it is. Going to the local track next nice weekend and talk to some of the race parents and check out some of there bikes.

thanks

signed

dad who 's kid has 100% percent more natural riding tallent then he ever will.

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Sam,

I am a KTM Dad. I Liked the PW's but was put off by their lack of suspension. Honda was to heavy. Ended up getting my son a Mini Adventure-2005. Awesome bike for beginners. Air cooled very low maintenance. All the KTM's 50 have a spring/washer controlled clutch. I to cannot afford the new KTM's, but you can find many used KTM's for great prices. The suspension on the KTM's are far superior than that of the Yami's and Hondas IMHO. My son is five and races a 2008 Pro Senior these days. Very fast bike. For you I would recommend you look for a used KTM Junior SX. Very reliable bike. The engines changed in 2009 to spring only run clutches, where the older 2008 prior are controlled by washer stacks. The Adventure series have springs in the clutches. Sounds complicated, but is actually anything but. Yes they require maintenance (all 50's do), but if you can do basic maintenance then it is nothing you can't handle. I love the TT and am a team member, but I recommend KTM talk as well. You will find only biased KTM answers there, but if you want to know more about KTM's feel free to PM me or head over there and browse that website.

Elpato

P.S. Love the signature.... I am in the exact same boat see link below!!!!

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Your Signature is great. I have 2 boys 10 and 14. One is on a 85 and the other a 125. I'm a passing dummy, since I can't keep up with either of them. I jump the track get in front of them, and make them work their way around me. Once around me I repeat. They probably think they are lapping me.

El Pato has it right. Go get a KTM or Cobra. The PW and CRF's are great bikes, but the suspension is the first thing that a kid will over ride. Not really meant to be jumped. If you spend the money to get the suspension dialed in you could have bought a good used KTM or Cobra.

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El Pato has it right. Go get a KTM or Cobra. The PW and CRF's are great bikes, but the suspension is the first thing that a kid will over ride. Not really meant to be jumped. If you spend the money to get the suspension dialed in you could have bought a good used KTM or Cobra.

Thanks kdub422... The only reason I didn't recommend the Cobra, was it is strickly a race bike with alot of power. Plus the damn things are so loud they annoy the living crap out of me at the track.....

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looks like you are in need of a KTM or cobra. if you look at the KTM get the newer models, as the clutch set up is better.

we rode our PW so hard on jumps that he bent the frame, and forks. after that we had to gusset our frames until we got off those bikes. we went through several sets of forks as well.

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You can do some impressive things with the PW80 using cheap components from other bikes and the bike will be just as happy to run around in first gear all day as it will being shifted up and down. However, to get decent suspension on it, you'll end up with a bike that's as tall as a 65. I abuse ours pretty well (seeing as I weigh about three times as much as the intended rider), but I'm not sure how much the frame will take as far as being jumped, the forces involved in landings greatly exceed anything I can do to it, unless of course, I jump it.

Don't worry about getting your kid to shift the 80 right now, show him how to kick the shift lever down before starting it so you know it's in neutral, how to move to first gear when it's running and let him go, for now.

In the future, plan on buying a 50cc MX bike so it can keep up with his demands. If he's tall enough to ride the PW80, he's too tall for the PW50 any way. If he tweaks something on the 80, shoot me a PM, I probably have a couple of spares (except a usable frame). We're about an hour due north of Baltimore. Good luck.

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Thanks for the info. I am going to keep a eye out for a used KTM. Are most of the ktm 50's one speed or do some models have gears.

I think the only 50 that has gears is the Honda CRF50. All KTM 50's are single gears. The clutch set up is nicer on the '09 and newer bikes, but the pre '09 bike can be found for really cheap and it's nothing more than learning washer stacks which once mastered are really easy to do. It all depends on what is in the budget for the OP. Read the Bible!!!!

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The TTR 50 has gears and electric start, and the same cheap fork design as the CRF50 and PW50. The OP nees a KTM 50.

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it looks like around $ 1000 is what i will have to spend on a decent used one. That kinda of sucks when a honda in simular condition will be half the price. I guess 500 is the price for good suspension.

I have seen a few from the mid to late 90's much cheaper. How is finding parts and parts prices on these machines or the newer ones.

thanks

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900 is what that one guy wants for it. But you can usually get them down by pointing out problems with the bike... Probably get that Jr for around $750. That is what I would try anyway. Never hurts to ask. Getting parts is not hard for the mid/late 90's. Anything on an '02 or earlier gets a little harder. If you are slightly mechanically inclinded then you can do all maintenance on your own and they are easy bikes to work on. They are a better breed than the Honda that is why you are paying more, your paying for the suspension and handling of a better bike...

I used http://www.cyclesportscenter.com/default.asp for parts when I have a week to spare. I have not been able to find cheaper parts, and that is shipped to Hawaii. If I need something in a hurry then it's to the stealership or any of the companies that advertise on KTM talk.

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for what it's worth, i think a CRF50 and TTR should not be over looked in the development of kids and shifting. it is important to learn how to shift and listen to the bike, because the next step is a 65 and it makes the transition a lot easier if they already know how to shift.

we went this route with my boy. he is 8 now and no issues shifting. PW50>KTM50JR and CRF50>KTM 50 SR> KX65 >KTM 65> KX85

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it looks like around $ 1000 is what i will have to spend on a decent used one. That kinda of sucks when a honda in simular condition will be half the price. I guess 500 is the price for good suspension.

I have seen a few from the mid to late 90's much cheaper. How is finding parts and parts prices on these machines or the newer ones.

thanks

We had a honda 50, they're great play bike/trail bikes for little kids. The pit bike crowd drives the aftermarket and you can definitely find much better suspension components because of this. However, they're rather pricey and probably not what you want (springs for adult weight, forks for youth height - 30" seat).

If you want to go cheap, buy a running PW80 (important, it's nearly impossible to kill a PW80 and if it doesn't run they probably neglected it, drowned it and then set it on fire) for $400, a KX60 parts bike for $75-100 and follow along with my PW80x experiments. For about $600 after machine shop work, you'll have an enormously better suspension, but I'll be honest, I'm not sure how well it would do jumping it regularly. The KX60 is a full cradle/braced frame, the PW80 is not. It would probably run another $100-200 to brace it in a similar fashion.

DSC00471.JPG

As you can see, it's ever so slightly taller than the KX60.

Edited by Smacaroni

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Smacaroni,

what do you have there, kx 6o forks and rear shock on the pw. we have a good running pw 80 and i can do my own work, but right now my son is still to short for a stock pw 80, but this might be a good future mod. how is the power comparison between a kx 60 /65 and a pw 80.

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Stock form, the PW makes about 1/4 the power of the KX. However, if you've got a dremel and are willing to spend some time reading about porting, you can get a heck of a lot more power out of it. If you're willing to have it bored, a KFX/LT80 piston will fit and netting you about 94cc. This will require porting to make decent power, but that does increase the power output even without porting. You also need to mill the cylinder to produce decent compression as the piston is 2.3mm (IIRC!) shorter than the PWs. Also, the KX60 CDI works on the PW, but it requires altering the wiring and stator plate. Not difficult, but a little nerve wracking.

Yes, the forks/trees are KX, the steering stem needs to be altered and a job for the machine shop. The swing arm can be made to fit with careful measurement and a grinder. You need to weld part of the PW swing arm to the KX swing arm to make the shock work, although I think it may be possible to have an upright shock set up, I don't have enough confidence in my welding skill to take on that task. It's using the KX wheels which are lighter than the PW, I never checked to see if the PW wheels would work on the KX suspension.

I've got a cylinder at the machine shop now because the cylinder I was using for porting experiments is worn out (still runs though!). I know I'll never make as much power on the PW as the KX does, but I do intend to get as much out of it as I can. The stock porting is so retarded (figuratively and literally) that much of the software I've used to help me along won't accept the numbers. It's basically a weed whacker, may not make a lot of power, but is designed to work forever.

My posts about the suspension and porting are highly disorganized, while I'm waiting for part X to get done, I work on improving part Y, but this is where each segment begins:

Stock PW80 is 25" seat height, KX60 is 28, ours is right about 28.5"

KX trees: http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/645975-pw-80-questions/page__st__260__p__8500462#entry8500462 (photos are busted, one of these years I'm gonna fix that server since I can't change the URLs in the post, it wouldn't be a problem if Comcast would stop changing my IP address)

KX/PW hybrid swing arm: http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/645975-pw-80-questions/page__st__280__p__8717805#entry8717805 (busted photos, same excuse)

KFX/LT80 piston: http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/645975-pw-80-questions/page__st__400__p__9531984#entry9531984 (note: it eventually melted down due to an intake leak, I'd still be using it otherwise)

Porting: http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/645975-pw-80-questions/page__st__400__p__9632384#entry9632384

Timing advance/KX60 CDI: http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/645975-pw-80-questions/page__st__400__p__9597876#entry9597876

I still have a, now very short list of things I want to do to the PW, but I think my total costs have been around $800 for everything I've done to it, which includes the good, bad and ugly, and I left out the ugly in the above list. I can't say how much time I've invested, most of my time was spent researching as much of what I've done hasn't been done to a PW80 before that I'm aware of. Some people make wood carvings, some people knit, I make little kids bikes do things they weren't intended to do until my neighbors call the cops.

4-11_4-13_0054_crop_800.jpg

What can I say? I can't afford one of these:

derbi-gpr-50-racing-replica-malossi-li.JPG

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