Leaded gas?

[2ttimemachine]

Hey everyone, as I mentioned I just got a brand new 2012 450. I am very skeptical of the fuel available in SE Wisconsin, where I live. There is a fuel station close to me that sells VP110 on the pump for a very reasonable price, and I have always run it in my Rm250 with no issues whatsoever. Would it be alright to run this in the 450, or would it damage/ clog something in the fuel system? Also my understanding is that the VP110 is a leaded un-oxygenated racing fuel.

[emerybrian]

From what I've seen at the track, that "ethanol in pump gas is killing my engine" is pretty much a 2-stroke a thing. Everyone I can think of uses pump gas, one guy I know even runs 87 octane, although I wouldn't try it. I tried VP oxygenated leaded U4 in my Honda 450 a few years ago and it ran like crap.

[Tailender]

I think someone said that the lead is not good for the titanium valves. ??? I'm no expert though, so I could be wrong.

[Bruce372]

whereabouts are you in SE wisconsin? I live in Lake County IL, if you go south on RTE 41 and hang a left on Washington, there is an auto repair shop called Tom Jones racing...he sells a whole line of sunoco race fuels, both leaded and unleaded. I get the 112 leaded for my 2 stroke, but i still run pump in my EFI RMZ450.

btw- whereabouts do you ride...i am always looking for new tracks and people to ride with.

[2ttimemachine]

Theres a guy I know by me that will sell me c10 in 5 gallon pails at cost, I was jw if I could use the leaded fuel or not. I live in racine county; I ride all over the state really. Ive also gone down to sunset ridge, but I mainly ride two private tracks near fondulac. I go to dyracuse when I feel like riding sand; if you send me ur info we can get in touch and set up.a ride this spring.

[motodavermz450]

I asked this same question on TT and got my balls ripped off for running leaded gas in my zook. Everyone told me its sooooooo bad for the valves.... Idk if it's true but there was some people with strong options against leaded gas, I was using vp 110 too and had some questions about avgas. So my feed back was its bad. But I didn't notice a difference from the 110 vs pump. Now on my 2 smoker I can really tell. My advice would be try to keep your wallet heavy and just run pump, focus more on better oil vs better gas and change the oil often. Good luck

[samras121]

I heard it was better for valves....could be wrong. havent lived my life by it but I asked one time and thats what they said.

[motodavermz450]

I heard it was better for valves....could be wrong. havent lived my life by it but I asked one time and thats what they said.

See that's what I thought, I thought lead acts as a cushion on the valve seats. When I asked this question people's response were that's it's okay for stainless steel but not Ti..... I'm still confused, if it's good for my valve seats then I'll spend the extra cash for leaded gas

[cataway]

See that's what I thought, I thought lead acts as a cushion on the valve seats. When I asked this question people's response were that's it's okay for stainless steel but not Ti..... I'm still confused, if it's good for my valve seats then I'll spend the extra cash for leaded gas

i dont know how old you are but back in the day when unleaded gas was introduced valve ware was the main concern of using unleaded gas

[samras121]

See that's what I thought, I thought lead acts as a cushion on the valve seats. When I asked this question people's response were that's it's okay for stainless steel but not Ti..... I'm still confused, if it's good for my valve seats then I'll spend the extra cash for leaded gas

This is what I was told. BUT I do remember once in a SX race someone was fined for running leaded fuel. RC? then they went on to say, it really does not have any benefit to the bike either.

[2ttimemachine]

See i was always under the impression as well that the leaded fuel would cushion the valves. A close friend of mine who is an engineer and avid moto rider told me to use the leaded fuel in the bike... so I really dont know. I was more or less concerned about the fuel system being clogged or damaged from the leaded fuel. I really just dont want to use this 10% ethanol crap with who knows what else mixed in with it. If I ride up north they have 93 octane pump gas with no ethanol marketed as "recreational fuel", so when I am up there ill just use that. If I am riding in the southern part of the state ill just use the C10, which is believe is pretty 100 octane with no lead...

[Bruce372]

on a 4-stroke, i dont think you need all the octane rating that comes with leaded gas- when you over octane an engine, you dont make as much power unless you then bump up the compression and advance the ignition.

also, since you have EFI, they have a lot of sensors that might not like the lead? i dunno! i have an 02 sensor on my RMZ, so i know the leaded fuel would destroy that sensor.

look for a decent unleaded racefuel- there should be a decent source somewhere near you since they run them in jet skis etc.

i will defo drop you a line about the tracks- there are so many private ones around here and its frustrating that sometimes its hard to get an "in".

[motodavermz450]

i dont know how old you are but back in the day when unleaded gas was introduced valve ware was the main concern of using unleaded gas

Wow that's super interesting, I am only 21 so I have been around unleaded my whole life. But having that idea in mind, motor builders must have used different metals to make the valve seats I assume otherwise everyone's car would need a valve job as part of a tune up I would assume. As for the rmz valve seats and valves I am very interested to see why they get messed up from lead

[Spud786]

Hey everyone, as I mentioned I just got a brand new 2012 450. I am very skeptical of the fuel available in SE Wisconsin, where I live. There is a fuel station close to me that sells VP110 on the pump for a very reasonable price, and I have always run it in my Rm250 with no issues whatsoever. Would it be alright to run this in the 450, or would it damage/ clog something in the fuel system? Also my understanding is that the VP110 is a leaded un-oxygenated racing fuel.

I have hundreds of thousands of miles on VPc12, The best stuff on the market for longevity IMO, eats carbon like crazy from pistons to the tail pipe, and it can be easily mixed with regular pump fuel. vp110 is probably similar.

I run it not for power , but the reliablity it adds to your fuel system and engine parts, and eating carbon eliminates carbon buildup issues.

[Spud786]

on a 4-stroke, i dont think you need all the octane rating that comes with leaded gas- when you over octane an engine, you dont make as much power unless you then bump up the compression and advance the ignition.

also, since you have EFI, they have a lot of sensors that might not like the lead? i dunno! i have an 02 sensor on my RMZ, so i know the leaded fuel would destroy that sensor.

look for a decent unleaded racefuel- there should be a decent source somewhere near you since they run them in jet skis etc.

i will defo drop you a line about the tracks- there are so many private ones around here and its frustrating that sometimes its hard to get an "in".

I got 100,000 miles on a leaded race fuel with cat 02 sensor, bike runs better than the day I bought it. , VP c12 will keep your 02 sensor clean which is the reason they fail, cause they get carboned up.

I wouldnt run it at full strength with a cat , a cup or two per tank.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Spud786

[Bruce372]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor

[motodavermz450]

I think this is the part you want us to read

[edit]Sensor failures

Normally, the lifetime of an unheated sensor is about 30,000 to 50,000 miles (50,000 to 80,000 km). Heated sensor lifetime is typically 100,000 miles (160,000 km). Failure of an unheated sensor is usually caused by the buildup of soot on the ceramic element, which lengthens its response time and may cause total loss of ability to sense oxygen. For heated sensors, normal deposits are burned off during operation and failure occurs due to catalyst depletion. The probe then tends to report lean mixture, the ECU enriches the mixture, the exhaust gets rich with carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons, and the fuel economy worsens.

Leaded gasoline contaminates the oxygen sensors and catalytic converters. Most oxygen sensors are rated for some service life in the presence of leaded gasoline but sensor life will be shortened to as little as 15,000 miles depending on the lead concentration. Lead-damaged sensors typically have their tips discolored light rusty.

Another common cause of premature failure of lambda probes is contamination of fuel with silicones (used in some sealings and greases) or silicates (used as corrosion inhibitors in some antifreezes). In this case, the deposits on the sensor are colored between shiny white and grainy light gray.

Leaks of oil into the engine may cover the probe tip with an oily black deposit, with associated loss of response.

An overly rich mixture causes buildup of black powdery deposit on the probe. This may be caused by failure of the probe itself, or by a problem elsewhere in the fuel rationing system.

Applying an external voltage to the zirconia sensors, e.g. by checking them with some types of ohmmeter, may damage them.

Some sensors have an air inlet to the sensor in the lead, so contamination from the lead caused by water or oil leaks can be sucked into the sensor and cause failure.[4]

Symptoms of a failing oxygen sensor includes:

Sensor Light on dash indicates problem

Increased tailpipe emissions

Increased fuel consumption

Hesitation on acceleration

Stalling

Rough idling