TE 300 Setup/Suspension/Jetting

[ccollinscj]

New to the Berg and want to see what modification are out there for the Berg. I know that it is a blue KTM with a few unique differences.

Is everyone happy with the CC forks or have yo had them revalved? if so who did you use?

Also, the stock jetting seems to be lean...is any one using the stock jetting at sea level-900ft? What about the Suzuki needles NECJ and NECD...etc....any good results?

[STECKNINE]

I love the suspension right out the box! Have not touched any thing. I used the manuel to jet my bike for about 5000 ft and is spot on. The best bike I have ever owned

[ADAM_3rd]

This thread is useless without pics! show them purty bikes please!

[ccollinscj]

Stock jetting for us was a little bit lean and I hear these 300 do not like to run lean very long before they have problems. We went with the NEDJ#3 with a half clip up spacer, 38PJ and running a stock main jet and it seems to be right on for the weather in GA 50-70 degrees (F). The Berg seems to be a optimized KTM 300 with fixes for all the short comings.

[riles]

Stock jetting for us was a little bit lean and I hear these 300 do not like to run lean very long before they have problems. We went with the NEDJ#3 with a half clip up spacer, 38PJ and running a stock main jet and it seems to be right on for the weather in GA 50-70 degrees (F). The Berg seems to be a optimized KTM 300 with fixes for all the short comings.

Ccollinscj

Glad you are liking the berg,

Ive had my 250 18 months now, 140 hours, very happy with it.

I have not needed to revalve, the forks are great (on comfort setting) but the rear definitely benefitted from a progressive race tech spring.

I've recently set up a mates 2012 300, same suspension mods and the following jetting - for sea level 60F. 38, NECJ #3, 162.

I suspect you may still be a tad rich with the NEDJ #3 plus a shim and a 165 main. I know guys who run their 300s with NEDJ #2 and a 160 in average temps, no problems. My point is don't be afraid to run a 1/2 clip leaner and a size smaller on the main. You won't damage anything and I think you will pick up some extra power and cleaner response.

Good luck

[dazzabb]

New to the Berg and want to see what modification are out there for the Berg. I know that it is a blue KTM with a few unique differences.

Is everyone happy with the CC forks or have yo had them revalved? if so who did you use?

Also, the stock jetting seems to be lean...is any one using the stock jetting at sea level-900ft? What about the Suzuki needles NECJ and NECD...etc....any good results?

I'm not that happy with the CC forks they are much to harsh.

Spent a whole day testing with an expert level friend (I'm inter level) but could not find find a setting that really liked.

For comparison my 2010 KTM 300 OC forks are much plusher, more predictable. I put these 2010 OC forks on the Berg (both with 0.46 springs) and its heaps better.

IDKW Husabrg opted for the CC fork really, I guess its marketing, but it's common knowledge that the OC fork is beter suited for enduro and the CC for MX and that dialing out the harshness on the CC forks aint that easy.

I rode a 2010 WR450 for comaprison and those kayaba units were night and day better than the Bergs CC fork.

Re-valve time!

[STECKNINE]

I'm not that happy with the CC forks they are much to harsh.

Spent a whole day testing with an expert level friend (I'm inter level) but could not find find a setting that really liked.

For comparison my 2010 KTM 300 OC forks are much plusher, more predictable. I put these 2010 OC forks on the Berg (both with 0.46 springs) and its heaps better.

IDKW Husabrg opted for the CC fork really, I guess its marketing, but it's common knowledge that the OC fork is beter suited for enduro and the CC for MX and that dialing out the harshness on the CC forks aint that easy.

I rode a 2010 WR450 for comaprison and those kayaba units were night and day better than the Bergs CC fork.

Re-valve time!

IMO I disagree! I had to put YZ forks on my WR to make it work for me. I like that the TE has a bit springy suspension and the more I ride it the better it gets. I guess different riders have different preferences

[dazzabb]

IMO I disagree! I had to put YZ forks on my WR to make it work for me. I like that the TE has a bit springy suspension and the more I ride it the better it gets. I guess different riders have different preferences

Yes, we all have different ideas on what good suspension feels like.

IMO the TE is better suited to the fast stuff, similar to MX, where the CC has beter control for successive hits. Its on the lower speed trails that I find it too harsh.

[ccollinscj]

We did feel the gurgle in the mid part of the power band so we are going to try the #2 clip and a leaner main like 162 or 160.

Ccollinscj

Glad you are liking the berg,

Ive had my 250 18 months now, 140 hours, very happy with it.

I have not needed to revalve, the forks are great (on comfort setting) but the rear definitely benefitted from a progressive race tech spring.

I've recently set up a mates 2012 300, same suspension mods and the following jetting - for sea level 60F. 38, NECJ #3, 162.

I suspect you may still be a tad rich with the NEDJ #3 plus a shim and a 165 main. I know guys who run their 300s with NEDJ #2 and a 160 in average temps, no problems. My point is don't be afraid to run a 1/2 clip leaner and a size smaller on the main. You won't damage anything and I think you will pick up some extra power and cleaner response.

Good luck

Are you a trail rider? or do you race at all?

Yes, we all have different ideas on what good suspension feels like.

IMO the TE is better suited to the fast stuff, similar to MX, where the CC has beter control for successive hits. Its on the lower speed trails that I find it too harsh.

[ccollinscj]

I like the OC we have been using them and racing them for years. We have set of on a SXF the we tried for years to get them to be a little bit better in the woods, we also tested the Ohlins TTX inserts which is CC and found that we could not get the first part of the stroke very plush on them either, so you always picked up a lot of trail trash in the first part of the stroke. The OC we are able to eliminate 90% of the trail trash, however the CC works better at high speed and big hits, so there is a trade off depending what you are riding and how fast you doing at. Real rugged 2&3 gear rooty rocky terrain like a tuff enduro I would say the OC would shine, the CC would shine in most GNCC's where you are up in 4 & 5 gear in most of the section and maybe a few MX type jumps, and fast Enduro's. Or if you are A, AA, Pro you probably like the CC better because of the speed at which you are traveling and hitting stuff at. We are working with both forks as well as the Ohlins TTX Shock, Stock PDS, and the notorious SXS PDS to see which is better. We have used the Ohlins rear for a year of racing GNCC and National Enduro and it holds up well and very tune-able. We are going to see how that compares to the SXS PDS and the revalued stock PDS.

[dazzabb]

I like the OC we have been using them and racing them for years. We have set of on a SXF the we tried for years to get them to be a little bit better in the woods, we also tested the Ohlins TTX inserts which is CC and found that we could not get the first part of the stroke very plush on them either, so you always picked up a lot of trail trash in the first part of the stroke. The OC we are able to eliminate 90% of the trail trash, however the CC works better at high speed and big hits, so there is a trade off depending what you are riding and how fast you doing at. Real rugged 2&3 gear rooty rocky terrain like a tuff enduro I would say the OC would shine, the CC would shine in most GNCC's where you are up in 4 & 5 gear in most of the section and maybe a few MX type jumps, and fast Enduro's. Or if you are A, AA, Pro you probably like the CC better because of the speed at which you are traveling and hitting stuff at. We are working with both forks as well as the Ohlins TTX Shock, Stock PDS, and the notorious SXS PDS to see which is better. We have used the Ohlins rear for a year of racing GNCC and National Enduro and it holds up well and very tune-able. We are going to see how that compares to the SXS PDS and the revalued stock PDS.

I agree entirely. I'm not a racer and hardly ever need 5th or 6th gear on the trails.

It will be interseting to see how the CC forks feel compared to the OC forks after the re-valve.

I had Dale EO in California do the re-valve for me.

[riles]

We did feel the gurgle in the mid part of the power band so we are going to try the #2 clip and a leaner main like 162 or 160.

I could not tell from your opening post that you were a racer. In any case going from clip 3 to clip 2 is worth trying. Let us know how you go.

Since you do race you would probably prefer a slightly richer set up than the average trail rider.

I guess you already know the NECJ is a half clip leaner than NEDJ. It might be worth going a half clip leaner instead of 1 full clip. I find I can really feel the half clip difference - and it's useful for getting spot on jetting.

Good luck with your suspension settings and especially your racing.

Edited February 27, 2012 by riles

[uw153]

_{I have a TE 250 and still need to check the suspension on normal woods riding. I have only been able to ride the sand here lately as it's been in the 30's to 40's around here in Iowa. I came from a WR270 and modified the fork with Smart performace stacks and liked them very much. I didn't like the harsh hit in the mid stroke on the WR. I ride mostly enduros and some harescrambles in Senior A class. I am currently still trying to get the jetting dialed in though. Tried a N3EW on #4 with 40 pilot and 170 main for 20-40 degree riding here at 600 above sea level. The stock N8RW seemed to be a little soft on the bottom. I am set up with the red spring one turn in now as well. Will be installing a sx head in a couple days so we'll see how that helps the bottom end a bit. The N3EW was pretty good but the pilot sure is sensitive with this setup. Was looking into trying the Suzuke triple taper needles but am not sure where to start. I do have an old NOZE needle I might try but still not sure about that. I would love some feedback as to what you other 250 boys have tried and worked for you.DS}

Edited February 29, 2012 by uw153

[uw153]

Can anyone let me know how to post the pics up here? I don't have a posting site and I periodically check this at work which of course doens't allow me to visit any picture sites.

Edited February 29, 2012 by uw153

[ccollinscj]

Well we had good results on jetting using the NECJ clip #2 165MJ and 38 PJ in GA 50-75 degrees (F) pulls everywhere with power throughout the entire power band, plug is spot on as well!!!

[wblake]

hey ccollinscj, no where near your expirience racing or tuning these but i have the same problem with mine TE300, from what i have been briefly searching, i get the impression that a rate higher in the front helps to get the airspring higher and maybe separate the harshness from that part of the stroke!!!for some seem to work, i havent tryied it on mine yet springs are on order and waiting!!

[ccollinscj]

Harshness can be caused either by the rear shock not having the right sag and not setup correctly and or not having the correct springs. You can also try oil level, which usually doesn't come into play to bottom part of the stroke. You may try adjusting just one spring 2 rates up to tune with.

There is a saying that we go by and some agree, it is "Spring for your weight, and valve for your style/preference/skill". First and for most make sure you have the correct springs in both the front and back. Check your sag and make sure it is within limits WP usually between 105-115 with 33-40 static sag. We usually check static sag first to make sure we have a spring that will fit with the proper preload 6-8MM, some folks will crank down the preload to make the race sag work instead of getting the correct spring which isn't the best thing when you are trying to get the most out of your suspension. You can usually find used and new springs out on this blog and or KTMtalk to fit your price range. Once your static sag is with in the range then set your race sag and remember not to go past the 8mm of preload. Once you have your race sag set (If I was just trail riding and not racing would be around 113-115), I would go to the manual and set all the clickers on the shock to stock i.e. Trail rider would us the Confort or standard settings and racers would use the standard to sport with the exception of may be Enduro racers which usually like a stiff back and a plush front. Now to start tuning, Once you have the front fork springs to your weight (By the way you can mix and match fork spring rates to save money or give you greater tuning. i.e stock .44 x 2 = .88 total by using one .46 +.44=.90 / 2=.45 which would be equal to having 2 .45s. If you choose to do this it is common practice to put the spring that you are using to adjust on the brake side for reference. Ok, now that you have the correct front spring for your weight, I would start out with your base setting that are in your manual and see how you like it. Pick out an area/terrain that you typically ride on the most, include turns, breaking / acceleration bumps, rocks, mud, sand or whatever and tune for that you will be riding 80-90% of the time. I would start with compression on the forks and start tuning to you can ride with the softest compression setting with out jackknifing, or wallowing both high speed and low so you know your limited is on the compression, then I would back in a click or two for the most stable feeling. Next I would do the rebound the same way, however when we talk about rebound we talk in terms of faster and slower, this is how fast the fork return to full stroke once compress. So from the base setting we typically start with speeding it up as fast as we can to match the terrain like we did the compression, find the limit that makes you feel like you getting head shake and bouncing around and start slowing it down to a couple clicks before the edge. After you get the front end done I would say go out and ride it for a while and see how it feels and make mental note where you feel uncomfortable. After you have rode it for awhile you should have a good idea on what you would like to tweak, and a lot of times the rear shock is can grossly effect the front end handling as well as the rear of the bike characteristics rear: (Traction, stability, bucking, seat hitting you in the rear, or packing) front characteristics that the rear shock can have effect on: (Steering, front push, to quick/jack knifing, to harsh, head shake, numbness in hands). So start by using the compression a few clicks out / soften and see if this helps and if it does go another 2 clicks until it becomes unstable and back back in. Make sure you do this over the same terrain that you have been already testing on. Now do the same with the rebound, this should get you to being very close to where you need your suspension for your riding. Now if you want to go even further you can adjust the high speed compression in the rear for fast sections or jarring type terrain, this controls the compression for sharp fast compression of the shock which can mean going slow or any terrain like a lot of sharp rocks which will make the shock compress very quickly in and out and necessarily riding at high speed. You can soften this up if you do a lot trail riding for comfort on long rocky rides. The other to areas you can look at is around steering which you can move your forks up in the tubes a few mm to create faster steering, however the give and take here is at high speed you will loose stability. The stock setup is usually the best setup unless you have a unique requirement like tight enduro racing.

One thing that we found while doing suspension is that correct springs and sag is important, you also have to have a methodology to your tuning as stated above how we do it. You will find base on the type of riding you do and the terrain or conditions you can always tweak to compensate. Make small methodical adjustments one circuit a time and have a system for tuning, and write it down.

hey ccollinscj, no where near your expirience racing or tuning these but i have the same problem with mine TE300, from what i have been briefly searching, i get the impression that a rate higher in the front helps to get the airspring higher and maybe separate the harshness from that part of the stroke!!!for some seem to work, i havent tryied it on mine yet springs are on order and waiting!!

[ccollinscj]

The Suzuki needles work great, I tried a whole bunch of others and really like the NECJ 2 or 3 clip depending on the weather and altitude. That goes for the MJ as well 165 for the cooler weather and 162 for the warmer, Pilot I like to run the 38 all the time, it starts good and there no bog when snapping the throttle..very crisp and easy to tune. I ran the N8RW for years and it was ok stock feeling.

_{I have a TE 250 and still need to check the suspension on normal woods riding. I have only been able to ride the sand here lately as it's been in the 30's to 40's around here in Iowa. I came from a WR270 and modified the fork with Smart performace stacks and liked them very much. I didn't like the harsh hit in the mid stroke on the WR. I ride mostly enduros and some harescrambles in Senior A class. I am currently still trying to get the jetting dialed in though. Tried a N3EW on #4 with 40 pilot and 170 main for 20-40 degree riding here at 600 above sea level. The stock N8RW seemed to be a little soft on the bottom. I am set up with the red spring one turn in now as well. Will be installing a sx head in a couple days so we'll see how that helps the bottom end a bit. The N3EW was pretty good but the pilot sure is sensitive with this setup. Was looking into trying the Suzuke triple taper needles but am not sure where to start. I do have an old NOZE needle I might try but still not sure about that. I would love some feedback as to what you other 250 boys have tried and worked for you.DS}

[wblake]

man for starts let me say wow for the input, you deserve a kiss for been so keen in helping out if i was in the same country i was going to find a woman willing to come over and give you one!!! what a write up!!

i share you view on sag, am happy with this settings 112mm on mine with 36mm static, 6 preload and the forks dropped on the second line...

--i dont understand why you would use 113-115 for trail riding though??

as you didnt talk about fork sag, the thing with the cc forks i get the impression that some people dont give much attention to the fork sag intentionally as it can take 0.2 spring rate higher or lower to serve any particular purpose (not so sensitive to sag)...am not talking something way off.....so am happy you belive also that you can tune with that!!!

mabe thats why KTM in the manuals the only tuning option is change the springs for a given weight or if bottoming to often!!!

not like the OC forks maybe!!

-- why would a soft front and stiff back would be preferred by an enduro rider??? does it bit him up less??

--Also what do you suggest for mix use off-road and track, something like GNCC? what would you suggest for the TE300, some people say once the springs are right a few clicks and its there no need to revalve!!!

this is something am trying to find out for my self and cut down experimenting with the bike!!! am okey at the moment as i am a bigginer with the big jumps!!

[uw153]

Ok, finally had some time to really put some offroad time other than sand on the TE, all I can say is it's the best stock suspended bike I've ever ridden. Better than many "valved" suspensions I've ridden as well. Jetting is good right now with an SX head and N3EW needle. Love this bike!