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Need FCR experts opinion dispute from buyer

By benjdow,
in DRZ400/E/S/SM

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benjdow

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Posted

Hi all, this may be a bit long to read, but I'd REALLY appreciate unbiased opinions on the real issue with the FCR39 carb

I sold my FCR39 on here back in December. Recently he filed a chargeback through AMEX to paypal. I sold the carb for $350 to Thumpertalk member Jeffery Cleary aka "corndogs." I'm now minus $350, which is not a small chunk of change for me. The carb had 4k miles on it. I sold it when I parted out my DRZ after the crank bearing failed. The carb was in perfect working order when I removed it and shipped it with no missing pieces.

This was the description of my add and picture:

Can't find the Thumpertalk add, but the SMJ one is identical http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?123313-2008-DRZ440SM-PART-OUT-FCR39-Webcams-Athena-BB-etc-etc

Keihin FCR 39. EMN needle/3rd clip/45pj/160mj, MSR extended A/F thumb screw, vacuum port nipple, and adapters needed to fit on DRZ400

IMAG0202.jpg

He initially tells me the carb was missing a bunch of pieces, the correspondance:

Jeff on 1/11/12 via email

Ben, parts came today. Thanks. My question is I did not see the vacuum nipple for the carb. also what is the red anodized knob on the bottom of the carb for. How long has it been since the carb ran? Do you know what size jet's are in carb?

Jeff says on 1/11/12 via email

Also I noticed I did not get the FCR Adapter 2 3/8", carb to S airboote E intake

I only got the boot that goes to the engine.

Me on 1/12/12 via email

OMG...I'm so sorry! I asked my GF to ship out the box since I was working late. Maybe she forgot to put the peices I had laid out in the box. I'll check as soon as I get home, and send to you ASAP. Again, I'm really sorry for the delay with all this.

Me on 1/12/12 via email

Forgot to answer this part. Last time the carb ran was about 2-3 months ago. I highly doubt it needs cleaning, if that's what you're getting at. The carb settings/jetting is EMN needle, 3rd clip, 45 pj, 160 mj. The red knob is an extended air/fuel screw. I think I tightened it all the way in before I shipped. You'll want the a/f screw about 2.5 turns out, and slightly adjust to you're liking from there. This screw is great so you can change the a/f ratio on the fly as opposed to removing the entire carb.

Me on 1/13/12 via email

Jeff,

Are you certain the vacuum nipple and adapter wasn't in there? I looked through the entire garage and couldn't find it, and my GF said she put everything in the box that I set out. Did you look on the carb intake for the adapter? I might have screwed it back on there. I'm going to check a few other places when I get home. If I can't find it, please let me know what I can do to make this right. I feel bad about the delay, and now this.

Jeff on 1/13/12 via email

Nope, no nipple and no carb to airbox. Here is what I got. Guards and throttle cable not in pic . No nipple in bag either

IMAG08541.jpg

Jeff on 1/13/12 via email

Ben is the air box adapter a machined piece of aluminum that bolts to the carb, if so yes I have that. I was thinking it was a rubber piece. The only thing I believe I do not have is the vacuum nipple.

I didn't reply to his last email because I was so disgusted that I wrongly accused my girlfriend of not putting all the parts in the box, and tore apart my garage looking for parts that were shipped solely because he didn't know what part was what. I assumed he couldn't identify the vacuum port nut like every other part he was confused about.

Jeff on 3/8/12 via email

Ben, I finally had time to bring the bike to suzuki of sarasota for them to install the carb, they said they can not get it to idle right, there is not air leaks. They said it is is missing oring and washer on the bottom red air mixture screw and it looks like the slide is worn out. I'm really bummed to have bought a used carb. Costing me more now then if I would have bought a new one.

After recieving his email, I decided to search thumpertalk for threads started by him before replying. I found a thread started by him on the 7th, one day prior to his email. He says on thumpertalk he installed it, but emails me saying a Suzuki dealership installed it. I'm sure he never thought I'd search for a thread started by him. Additionally, the problems he claimed were extremely similar to what other thumpertalk members suggested to check.

Jeff on 3/7/12 via Thumpertalk thread https://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/946730-fcr39-carb-having-a-small-issue/

I just installed a new to me ( used carb ) After some fussing it runs great but it does not idle back down proper, it idles down real slow. The throttle is returning right away. Not sure what to check for.

Me on 3/8/12 via Thumpertalk thread

Corndogs, I searched TT after recieving your email. I'm sorry your bummed about buying my used carb. So you took it to Suzuki of Sarasota for them to install the carb and they said the o-ring and washer are missing from the air screw? That's really bizarre as I don't recall ever removing it, but I do appologize if that is the case. You mentioned they also said the slide is worn out? Hmmm...I highly doubt that's the case, the carb had 4k miles on it, but like they say...anything is possible.

I think you need to find someone locally to help you who knows what they're doing. Or keep on troubleshooting with the TT experts. The jetting when I shipped the carb was FCR 39mm EMN needle, 3rd clip, 45 pilot jet, 2 turns on fuel screw, 160 main jet. Did you install the replacement throttle assembly/cable I sent you? Also, I actually have a few videos of very last time the bike and carb ran...there were absolutely zero issues with the carb.

Jeff on 3/12/12 via email

Ben just got bike back from suzuki. Bill was $181. Carb air idle screw was missing spring, thebo ring and washer. The slide has two screws that were loose causing the slide to float. Not happy, im goingnto give you a bad review on thumpertalk. If you want to make this rightband refund me half, im coolmwith that, but this carb was not as described. Ill give you a few daysntonthinkmaboutnit.

Me on 3/12/12 via Thumpertalk thread

Got your email, corndogs (above). Lol...dude....I'm not refunding you. It's not my fault you don't know what the Hell you're doing and a stealership ripped you off.

Jeff on 3/12/12 via Thumpertalk thread

Found out what problem was, air idle screw was missing oring, spring and a washer, two screws on the slide were really loose and dealership said it would alow it to kinda float when you let off throttle. $181. Later it runs good. Not happy about that.

Jeff on 3/12/12 via Thumpertalk thread

Ben its also not my fault you told me carb was good to go ( my bad there to trust you) well good thing my paypal is linked to my amex and im going to dispute charge. Ill get my money back one way or the other, thanks for ripping me off.

Jeff on 3/12/12 via email

Don't know anything about used carbs that are supposed to be good. I paid by paypal via my american express. Trust me I'll get my money refunded. I'll make sure I go on the forum and let all know your shady, prob won't matter much but I know I can sleep good at night, unlike you being a shady individual. Maybe you should learn how to be a decent human being.

And then I get the email from paypal and discover $350 missing from my account.

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suzuki sm nut 123
suzuki sm nut 123

I think you are a victom of somebody who did not know what he was doing and would fit tooth and nail to get my carb back . after all he did by a used carb at half the cost of a new one and probel

ohgood
ohgood

There is no way I'd split the cost of his ignorance and stealership consequences with him. I'd refund him purchase price WITH ZERO SHIPPING, AFTER HE SHIPPED IT BACK, in the exact same condition i shi

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ccman60

Posted
Posted

AS Always, it's buyer beware. When modding a bike, you should be prepared to learn. When buying used parts, trial and error. Not going to a dealership and handing over a blank check and saying "Fix it." Bummer. I have bought a lot of parts and bikes over the internet, and didn't give much thought about a money back clause. LOL. Good luck, and at the very least, get your carb back.

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benjdow

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Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the $350 just be held by paypal until the dispute is sorted?

I'm not quite sure. I guess paypal is holding it? All I know is I don't have it.

This stuff is always going to be messy....Perhaps give him his money back , get your carb back and re sell it on ebay...

I don't believe you should be accountable for the money he paid to the dealer, he should have given you the option to look at it first....

This is what I'm looking for opinions on.

My big concern about getting the carb back is the hands it's been in. Who knows what he or the dealership did to it. What's your opinion on the dealer supposedly charging $181? I found it very odd that when he received the carb he says "what is the red anodized knob on the bottom of the carb for" then a few months later when he goes to install it he says "it is is missing oring and washer on the bottom red air mixture screw" Makes me think he was playing around with it when he got it and might have unscrewed it, and the spring possibly fell out. I know for a fact I never took it off and it was on there when I sent it. Another possibility is the Suzuki dealer noticed the A/F screw as aftermarket, and knew the customer bought a used carb and has no mechanical knowledge...good way to justify $181 to adjust the A/F and idle screw.

Rant

Ugh...I'm so frustrated by all of this. I feel like I'm being extorted due to the buyers lack of mechanical knowledge. I had it way worse when I was ripped off for $320 by a mechanic when my stator failed due to a defective trail tech flywheel, 2 trail tech flywheels and 2 fried stators later my crank bearing failed. I ended up negative $3k on the bike and only rode it less than 2k miles. The only good thing I gained was mechanical knowledge through Thumpertalk

I'm an honest person and did everything I could to be a good seller during the part-out....as seen by other buyers comments from the part out:

"Double thumbs up for a super solid seller! Thanks again!"

"Big thanks to benjdow. Two separate purchases of multiple parts from him got my bike running. Don't hesitate to do business with him. I'll be buying some more of his stuff soon."

"Good guy! He ships fast and jumps high!"

"I bought the suspension and the BB kit. So far so good."

"I just received my headlight brackets...thanks again...to all shoppers this guy is A+ with handling business...."

"Bump for a fantastic seller! got my wheels in today, packaged very very well and shipped fast. He sent out the spacers and front sprocket separate and didnt even ask for extra shipping. Very trustworthy!"

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benjdow

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Posted

AS Always, it's buyer beware. When modding a bike, you should be prepared to learn. When buying used parts, trial and error. Not going to a dealership and handing over a blank check and saying "Fix it." Bummer. I have bought a lot of parts and bikes over the internet, and didn't give much thought about a money back clause. LOL. Good luck, and at the very least, get your carb back.

Absolutely agree! I've learned my lesson about taking bikes to mechanics. I found DIY via Thumpertalk to be the most cost effective and accurate solution to any mechanical issues.

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SteveROntario

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Posted

There are two things that come to mind.

1. If you don't test your purchase promptly you waive the right to complain.

2. If the seller did not know of the issues then it is buyer beware. This is easy enough to understand when selling a car or a house. You tell the people what you know and they take their chances. You can prove you felt the product was good to go with your video so any honest reviewing body should take your side.

Steve

PS. Your rotors arrived 100% as described.

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suzuki sm nut 123

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think you are a victom of somebody who did not know what he was doing and would fit tooth and nail to get my carb back .

after all he did by a used carb at half the cost of a new one and probely would have found something wrong with that

Also thinking you may be right by thinking he tinkerd with the carb and lost some parts

Edited by suzuki sm nut 123
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Noble

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Posted

Unless you clearly misrepresented the carb, he owes you the full amount.

Once he started to work on the carb, he accepted it and he owns it regardless.

The two of you can renegotiate a new price if you can come to mutual agreement.

If he cancels payment he owes you the carb in return in the as received condition. (the money he spent on it is on him)

Right or wrong, the easiest way out of this will be to accept the carb in return or negotiate a new price, but he can't just keep it without paying for it. How about you split he cost of what he says he spent on the repair. Hard to swallow but it ends it and you both come out with something.

Any evidence presented here is hearsay so there is no way to take sides.

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zaq123

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Posted (edited)

I would absolutely refuse to take this carb back. He worked on it, he owns it.

Do you have any proof of delivery? If so, it would be easier to deal with AMEX/Paypal.

Did he open a claim against you? You should have claim # and you can upload any documents/email you have there

about paypal:

Ok, first thing I am going to tell you is it’s basically impossible to win a Paypal dispute against a buyer if:

  1. You don't have a qualified Verified Business or Premier Account
  2. You ship to an unconfirmed address
  3. You ship without tracking (Print shipping labels online with USPS and receive free tracking)
  4. You ship without signature receipt on items $250 or greater

read here:

http://reviews.ebay....000000001676577

If you believe he purchased it with the intention to commit fraud and he is not located in your state:

United States Secret Service,

Financial Crimes Division,

419 Task Force

950 H Street,

Washington, DC 20001-4518

telephone (202) 406-5850 fax: (202) 406-8203, (202) 406-6390

Edited by zaq123
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slowriding

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If he went through Amex to get the refund it is not Paypal that is your first problem. I am not sure after 3 months if there was ever a complaint filed through Paypal (you would know because they would have informed you via email and there is a definite process to follow). I believe the time limit for Paypal is 60 days so he appears to have waited past that. It does make you wonder how much he screwed with the carb in that period.

On the other hand if he complained to Amex instead, credit card companies are usually more than willing to issue charge backs against merchants if the customer claims to be unhappy. Why should they care if it is fair or not. Paypal is considered a merchant at this point, acting for you. Customer complains to credit card who charges back Paypal who removes funds from your account. Fair or not it happens. I am not sure the best procedure to follow. I suggest consulting a lawyer and seeing if you can pursue the lack of payment INCLUDING ANY LEGAL FEES INCURRED to recover the carb or payment. Does his ebay account have any comments that would suggest he has used this tactic before?

You are not the only seller with bad stories from Paypal. I was burned as a buyer before and the seller had no funds in the account so I didn't get anything back. Ebay is a neat place but not without problems.

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underbike

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Posted

The only thing I can add is that the only time I dealt with a PayPal dispute, it went on for a month and I didn't get any satisfaction. It wasn't a lot of money, but it was really obious that the seller, in this case, was wrong. In the end, I got pissed and called Paypal. When I explained things to a rep. He agreed and I got the money back. Granted, your situation is more complicated, but I would be careful of any dispute resolution with PayPal.

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