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Sitting or Standing for Racing in the Woods?

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slowgs2001 Sitting causes rear end to kick you in the @ss , which leaves a symptom called chap @$$ or monkey butt.

Lol hate when that happens. Nothing worst then having chapped swamped @$$ a few hours into your ride!!! Try this before you ride, that way halfway through the day your not forced to "stand" the whole time☺️☺️ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1380310251.224559.jpg

Edited by GoonSquadCRFx

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i don't think ANYONE will argue you should stand over rough stuff. And you guys can "Name Drop" all the local pro's ya want .. We get it.. A bike works better over tough terrain with the rider standing. BUT .. to say "stand all the time" or "Stand as much as you can" is just wrong. Do you guys actually watch pro outdoor mx ? how about RacerTV covering the GNCC ? Lots of sitting. Please, i am NOT saying sitting all the time, but a fair amount of sitting is being done because it WORKS. Especially in corners, and in a 2-3 hour offroad race, to conserve energy. Did i actually see someone post earlier that sitting uses more energy than standing ?? wow. Ok. ;) I would agree in some instances it would! Keep your butt on the seat through some whoops and you will use some energy picking yourself up off the ground. But there are plenty of times in a long offroad race, or winding through the woods, when sitting will save energy and potentially be FASTER than standing on the pegs with a higher center of gravity. Do you realize how much R&D and money the bike companies spend to lower the cg of these machines ?

If standing was SO much better all the time.. as in if you sit the bike will not work, why do FLAT TRACK racers sit the entire time? How about speedway? (totally sideways SITTING the entire time).

How about roadracing ? ever see Valentino Rossi or Josh Hays standing on the pegs of the Yamaha M1 or R1 ?? negative.

 

I know im making dramatic comparisons, but as Dwight Rudder mentioned LONG ago.. for WOODS riding/racing, "Sit when you can.. Stand when you HAVE to"..

pretty simple.

;)

Edited by MELK-MAN

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 Last race I was at, I couldn't keep up so well with some people sitting, but if I stood I could go tons faster. depends on the terrain, it was really bumpy that race, so that is what slowed me down. I am trying to get back into 20% sitting, and 80% standing, usually I get too tired to stand for long times, and it turns into "stand when you have to"

 

 This is how I look at it, if you don't teach yourself how to stand, and stand for long periods of time, you won't stand when needed, and you won't be use to the way it feels. a lot of times I get behind guys that don't stand when needed, and I think its crazy of them the kind of risks they put themselves in, you have way more control when you stand.

Edited by LukeBrinkerhoff

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 Last race I was at, I couldn't keep up so well with some people sitting, but if I stood I could go tons faster. depends on the terrain, it was really bumpy that race, so that is what slowed me down. I am trying to get back into 20% sitting, and 80% standing, usually I get too tired to stand for long times, and it turns into "stand when you have to"

 

 This is how I look at it, if you don't teach yourself how to stand, and stand for long periods of time, you won't stand when needed, and you won't be use to the way it feels. a lot of times I get behind guys that don't stand when needed, and I think its crazy of them the kind of risks they put themselves in, you have way more control when you stand.

 

 

it's likely you were simply a better rider than the riders in front of you that were sitting.. they probably were going as fast as they friggin could go, and likely too TIRED to stand. So again, let's make clear that there are times to sit, there are times to stand. We all pretty much agree  you must learn to stand and that you need to train yourself to do so WHEN NEEDED. You can not possibly go fast over nasty terrain sitting. That is totally understood. But in a 2-3 HOUR race, sitting when you can will conserve energy and getting good at using bumps to bounce you up on the pegs, will allow you to stand without tiring for the long haul..

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it's likely you were simply a better rider than the riders in front of you that were sitting.. they probably were going as fast as they friggin could go, and likely too TIRED to stand. So again, let's make clear that there are times to sit, there are times to stand. We all pretty much agree  you must learn to stand and that you need to train yourself to do so WHEN NEEDED. You can not possibly go fast over nasty terrain sitting. That is totally understood. But in a 2-3 HOUR race, sitting when you can will conserve energy and getting good at using bumps to bounce you up on the pegs, will allow you to stand without tiring for the long haul..

 Those were riders that pasted me, and I stayed with them, and pasted them back standing. I am not disagreeing that there is, but when you practice, you should try for long periods of time, I use to practice just sitting, and one I went to my first harescramble, I had a bad time, because I wasn't comfy standing, even though I knew I would be better off. you should be able to, if you are fit enough you should be able to stand 85% of the time in a race, but that is mega fit, and I can't do that, I can't, I can at least maybe 60% I can't tell. 

 

 again, I am just sharing, that if you don't get comfy standing, and get tons of practice doing it, you won't be ready when the time comes. again,  I got behind many riders that didn't stand, and their weight was going everywhere, that is just unsafe to me. I am just encouraging standing more than sitting. I will stand a lot more in the woods, than I do outside, but even in long stretches I will stand when I get up to speed.

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The OP was asking advice about sitting or standing. He noted that the A and  B riders were usually standing. That probably indicates that most of the trail was the sort of trail that is good for standing.

 

Stand when you can, sit when you have to.

Terrain and conditioning will dictate riding position.

Anybody can sit.

You will only learn to ride standing, by making yourself stand.

You will only learn where to sit, by teaching yourself when to stand.

You cannot learn to stand by sitting.

I think CL here nailed it as far as the OP is concerned. It's good advice. A person working on his skills would do well to stand most of the time to learn where and when it makes a difference. Stand behind someone who is sitting for a while. You'll be amazed at how you can all but coast as they accelerate and brake WAY more than they have to. There is that to consider also when entering into a "conserve energy" argument.

 

 I sit down in faster stuff that I call "slot car" sections. You can go fast in sections like that while sitting down because you can gas it really hard and not have to slow way down for the next corner. But unless you experiment with standing a lot. You'll never learn to recognize things like that.

sorry to hear that.. but PLEASE stop telling everyone that the best way to ride is standing nearly all the time. For YOU standing is best nearly all the time due to your physical ailments. YOU have back pain if you sit.. MOST OF US DON'T have back problems and CAN sit when possible. Even riders that MAY likely be faster than you (no offense-i don't know you, don't know how fast you are but im reasonably friggin fast in the woods) sitting when possible and standing when needed is usually the best way to for long offroad rides and races.

You know Melk. I think you get a little riled up here because you know that you probably sit too often and it bothers you.

 

I'm a 51 year old A rider. The last time I raced I took my trail tune bike because I found a last minute problem with my race tune bike. I rode with a trail ride mentality. But I rode fast enough. I was the Senior A guy on our minute. We also had a Vet A guy, a AA guy and a C guy. Early in the race I felt that the Vet A was riding fast enough, so I followed him. I stand most of the time because IMO "conserve energy" also includes minimizing the amount of times you go from sitting to standing. I can stand comfortably and stay relaxed throughout an enduro. If I can stay standing and lean against a tree at a checkpoint, I will and I do.

The Vet A Guy rode like his hair was on fire. He sat a lot, gassed it hard a lot, shifted a lot, and braked hard a lot. When he would miss a turn or crash I would pass him. I covered his six standing up burbling along in third or forth gear while I watched him. Just before "lunch" there was a 25 mile long section. Even here, half way through the event. Vet A was looking pretty wore down. Gone was his tool belt and kidney belt. His shirt was un-tucked. He had a generally disheveled appearance. AA and I were still pretty fresh. Vet A let me lead, I was eventually passing him all day anyway.

 

My race plan is to finish strong. I don't race hard until the last section, where this club is known to throw the book at you. A look at the results showed Vet A gaining more minutes on me every section after the first two. Why? He wasn't conserving enough energy. I don't know if it was just because he was sitting down a lot. But he was certainly working too hard at it. Sitting generally makes you over-accelerate and over-brake. That's what this guy was doing. Key to speed is to maintain a high average while conserving energy. Standing makes it easier to maintain that average. For me at least. The bike does work better under a standing rider. Particularly if you don't know what sort of evil is lurking on the trail ahead. Only on a video game do you do battle while sitting down.

 

Results? I finished third in Senior A. Senior A is a tough class in Minnesota. I beat the guys who got second in Vet A (the guy on my minute) and 250A for instance. By two digit numbers in both cases.

 

Do I know guys who can go really fast while sitting down a lot? Yup! However most (but not all) of those guys need to be in really good shape or they wear out faster than guys who tend to stand up more. Some guys just have a knack for going fast while sitting down on trail that is more suited to standing.

Edited by shagger

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On a side note, in enduros, I notice the senior guys seem to be generally faster than the vet guys (in B, at least).  I don't know why, maybe it's experience, maybe it's that enduro is more of an older persons sport and the younger guys are still more focused on harescrambles.  Can't really explain it :excuseme:

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In Minnesota I think it was a rider boom. We've talked about it among ourselves for decades.

 

My opinion is that fossils like myself were raised during a period when motorcycles were very popular. Commercials for dirt bikes and other motorcycles were shown during regular programming on television, back where you could count the channels with one hand and still be able to hold the remote, which did not exist yet. 

 

Then the government came down kind of hard all over and riding got less easy, for snowmobiles too. Motorcycle sales sagged big time. The number of people exposed to riding sagged with them. A lot of people who would have been good riders who rode all their life were simply doing other things. 

 

Then there is motocross. Motocross became the easiest way to get in to motorcycling. There are lots of girls there watching and mingling. A lot less guys rode woods. Venues are typically harder to access and events are less often. And there are a lot less girls.

 

Then came the echo. The kids of the fossils who grew up riding with dear old dad have had excellent training and great bike, compared to pops, since they were old enough not to crash every ten feet.

 

So you have what Minnesota loos like now. You have your fast old fossils who grew up riding all over the place. You have your guys from the lull who came from a smaller pool, that pool favoring motocross. Then you have a bunch of very talented younger guys with very familiar last names. 

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The OP was asking advice about sitting or standing. He noted that the A and B riders were usually standing. That probably indicates that most of the trail was the sort of trail that is good for standing.

I think CL here nailed it as far as the OP is concerned. It's good advice. A person working on his skills would do well to stand most of the time to learn where and when it makes a difference. Stand behind someone who is sitting for a while. You'll be amazed at how you can all but coast as they accelerate and brake WAY more than they have to. There is that to consider also when entering into a "conserve energy" argument.

I sit down in faster stuff that I call "slot car" sections. You can go fast in sections like that while sitting down because you can gas it really hard and not have to slow way down for the next corner. But unless you experiment with standing a lot. You'll never learn to recognize things like that.

You know Melk. I think you get a little riled up here because you know that you probably sit too often and it bothers you.

I'm a 51 year old A rider. The last time I raced I took my trail tune bike because I found a last minute problem with my race tune bike. I rode with a trail ride mentality. But I rode fast enough. I was the Senior A guy on our minute. We also had a Vet A guy, a AA guy and a C guy. Early in the race I felt that the Vet A was riding fast enough, so I followed him. I stand most of the time because IMO "conserve energy" also includes minimizing the amount of times you go from sitting to standing. I can stand comfortably and stay relaxed throughout an enduro. If I can stay standing and lean against a tree at a checkpoint, I will and I do.

The Vet A Guy rode like his hair was on fire. He sat a lot, gassed it hard a lot, shifted a lot, and braked hard a lot. When he would miss a turn or crash I would pass him. I covered his six standing up burbling along in third or forth gear while I watched him. Just before "lunch" there was a 25 mile long section. Even here, half way through the event. Vet A was looking pretty wore down. Gone was his tool belt and kidney belt. His shirt was un-tucked. He had a generally disheveled appearance. AA and I were still pretty fresh. Vet A let me lead, I was eventually passing him all day anyway.

My race plan is to finish strong. I don't race hard until the last section, where this club is known to throw the book at you. A look at the results showed Vet A gaining more minutes on me every section after the first two. Why? He wasn't conserving enough energy. I don't know if it was just because he was sitting down a lot. But he was certainly working too hard at it. Sitting generally makes you over-accelerate and over-brake. That's what this guy was doing. Key to speed is to maintain a high average while conserving energy. Standing makes it easier to maintain that average. For me at least. The bike does work better under a standing rider. Particularly if you don't know what sort of evil is lurking on the trail ahead. Only on a video game do you do battle while sitting down.

Results? I finished third in Senior A. Senior A is a tough class in Minnesota. I beat the guys who got second in Vet A (the guy on my minute) and 250A for instance. By two digit numbers in both cases.

Do I know guys who can go really fast while sitting down a lot? Yup! However most (but not all) of those guys need to be in really good shape or they wear out faster than guys who tend to stand up more. Some guys just have a knack for going fast while sitting down on trail that is more suited to standing.

Good post man. Lots of interesting points. It's been well over a year since I made this post & since then my riding has gotten slot better, I've gotten a lot faster & my technical skills has improved. When I ride with friends I notice the slower, none skilled guys seem to sit all the time. Not sure if it's laziness, or they just don't get it. I've noticed the faster I have gotten, the more I stand. I feel more in control, ready for whatever's ahead & smooth. I usually sit more towards the end if the day when I start to tire, or if it's just a fast long "sitting" section..

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sit when you can, stand when you have to.

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I can't believe its still going too! I'm gonna stop following it so my phone will stop blowing up. Stand when needed, sit whenever you can, end of story. Or, I have an idea, do whatever the F makes you comfortable on YOUR bike!! Ha

there is a lot of truth to that ^^^

 

for me i always rode better standing up. i could run the pace of a slow local pro while standing but when seated i ran with the midpack amatuer guys. im not sure how or why but one day the seated riding just clicked for me and i found myself riding much faster and longer than ever before.

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