Where, how and why are dirt bikes so much faster than quads on an MX track?

[CooHead]

I'm just assuming: If two equal riders were on their machines, one a 250 quad and the other a 250 mx bike (or 450 or 2-stroke...whatever) the dirt bike would spank the quad in a ten lap race. On a MX coarse. Maybe I'm wrong in that assumption and this whole thread is off base. But it seems a bike is faster.

But why and where are our two wheelers so much faster?

Where do we make up ground on em? I'm thinking jumps for sure.

The reason I ask as I tried a 450R Yamaha quad yesterday. VERY fast and scary. But in the fresh cut grass, I was faster on it than my KX250t. Just cause I was tiptoeing around on the slickery grass. It ripped hard on the trail. Just wondering where and how it is that we spank em so handely.

Don't have to worry about the quad front tires washing out like on a dirtbike. Sure is scary getting air on them. I have little experince with quads other than plowing my snow with them. I have a year of experience on the 2-wheeler and it seems pretty fast to me.

Is it just any and every exceleration that we gain feet and seconds on them? We can brake later and harder (but they have four wheels slowing them down)?

Or maybe I'm all wrong and a equal quad will give a good race to an equal guy on an equal dirt bike. But somehow I don't think so.

Where how why are ours faster?

Educate me as I have no idea on how those things run and race.

CooHead

[DuneRipper]

Bikes weigh less and have higher powered motors..Take a look at the 450 class. Usually the 450 quad motors are detuned compared to the bikes. Another thing is that theyre totally different animals when it comes to jumps and cornering. But over all bikes seem faster. I have a 250 2t bike and 450 4t quad (trx450er) same motor as the 450x but with a different head.

[CR250_182]

Bikes have a better power to weight ratio. If I'm not mistaken ( Which I might be), I have heard the dirtbikes have the best power to weight ratio out of any machine with wheels ( cars, F1, Nascar ). But again not sure if it's true.

[mikeylikesit]

Quads weigh 400lbs with the same engine as a 240lb dirtbike.

Edited June 12, 2012 by mikeylikesit

[shawn1331]

Quads are sketchy as well. Try taking a corner as quick on a quad as you do on your bike. It's so sketchy as hell!

[CooHead]

Yea yea....bikes weigh less than quads. That is a given.

But if to race, where would bikes gain so much of the speed? Every acceleration?

Is there a spot on the track where quads could keep pace?

Woops the nod would go to two-wheelers for sure.

Jumps, the bike again prevails.....don't see quads doing 70' triples often.

Turns, gotta think the bike again would win as quicker to rotate and hence get to accelerate.

Just the drop of the gate? Could/would a quad at least get the hole shot?

Could/would a atv at least go into a corner and brake as good as an MX bike?

Is there any aspect of a track where a quad would shine?

Or, would the ATV get lapped in short order?

In general I'm asking and thinking about this. As stated previously, I have little experience with 4wheelers.

I've seen them and watched videos.

I've riden them a couple times and indeed sketchits.

Coo

[temporarily_locked]

on a flat hard pack turn track i wouldn't be surprised if a quad is faster.

[corndog]

But if to race, where would bikes gain so much of the speed? Every acceleration?

Bikes will do better in whoops, jumps, and anything rough. One of the fatal flaws of a quad is the size of their wheels. Imagine hitting curb'ish braking bumps on a dirt bike...with pitbike sized wheels.

The acceleration is actually a tough one because there's one more important element to discuss beyond the obvious power to weight ratio, and that's contact patch. Quads have an advantage with the amount of tire touching dirt. The additional weight actually helps traction to some degree, same as how you couldn't run to save your life if you weighed two pounds. Theoretically, I think a quad would out accelerate a dirt bike if they had equal power to weight ratios. Right now they have less power, but more traction, I have no idea where the threshold is that favors one over the other.

Is there a spot on the track where quads could keep pace?

Pretty much every flat and rutless corner, the quad should smoke a dirt bike.

Just the drop of the gate? Could/would a quad at least get the hole shot?

Could/would a atv at least go into a corner and brake as good as an MX bike?

Same as before, I think it's possible for a quad to get the holeshot and they should theoretically brake better than a dirt bike, since they probably have twice the contact patch, but are not twice the weight.

Is there any aspect of a track where a quad would shine?

A flat one.

Or, would the ATV get lapped in short order?

I would expect a top intermediate mx rider to beat a top intermediate quad rider by a fair amount, at a typical motocross track.

[CR250_182]

Yea yea....bikes weigh less than quads. That is a given.

But if to race, where would bikes gain so much of the speed? Every acceleration?

Is there a spot on the track where quads could keep pace?

Woops the nod would go to two-wheelers for sure.

Jumps, the bike again prevails.....don't see quads doing 70' triples often.

Turns, gotta think the bike again would win as quicker to rotate and hence get to accelerate.

Just the drop of the gate? Could/would a quad at least get the hole shot?

Could/would a atv at least go into a corner and brake as good as an MX bike?

Is there any aspect of a track where a quad would shine?

Or, would the ATV get lapped in short order?

In general I'm asking and thinking about this. As stated previously, I have little experience with 4wheelers.

I've seen them and watched videos.

I've riden them a couple times and indeed sketchits.

Coo

Quads of 70' triples?? yep I've seen that and it's sketchy at best! but the guy did it every lap.

I think quads could be better in flat corners because they can just spin around kinda.

Quads could possibly have an advantage on a muddy slick track. I've seen a guy on a quad who doesn't race beat a "B Class" 450 rider on a muddy slick track. 4 points of traction is better that two. But I still think bikes have the advantage overall and in most of everything.

[quadrcr161]

At the high point national last year or the year before the quads set a faster lasp time then the bike nationals that was a weekend or so before. bikes are faster because they can be more forgiving on landings, have more suspension travel, lighter and the quads are detuned. also the motors have less parts, in the quad motors you have to have a counterbalancer to keep the vibrations down.

as far as a quad on a mx track, they can do pretty much anything else a bike can do if the quad is set up right. to take a quad on an mx track you need, new a arms, swingarm, axle, and shocks to even make it rideable. theres plenty of quad guys who are faster then the local bike riders, and a lot of quad guys who race have also rode bikes. one thing i see where a quad shines is corners, you can blast the corners harder and faster which throws the dirt, which is what the bike riders complain about the most. but you have to be carefull on a track, with a quad the jump faces and landing have to be square and not have a lot of the holes in the top, if you get sideways on a quad its harder to straighten up then a bike. as far as jumping 70ft tripples, search youtube, theres tons of vidoes of real pros and racers hitting some huge jumps.

EDIT: it was the Red Bud national, not High Point

Edited June 12, 2012 by quadrcr161

[tl1000rlt]

If you havent seen a pack of quads hit 80 foot triples you should go to an AMA race where they have a quad class. Its truly hairy looking!

On the faster thing, I had a quad for awhile and it beats you in every direction because of its 4 contact patches. On a bike the bumps are reacting straight into your susp. and legs. On a quad you are bouncing in multiple directions and it makes for a much rougher rid thus slowing you down a bit. On a groomed track the bike pretty much cuts a rut smoothing out the chop a bit. A quad bounces violently through the same area.

[dhdrider]

[slomojo]

Quads suck,and they have ruined off road motorcycle riding.They're popular because they're easy to ride and give you a false sense of security,just what the average American wants.Even if they were twice as fast they would still suck.Did I say they suck?

[RedRider31]

Where, how and why are dirt bikes so much faster than quads on an MX track?

I think the important question we should be asking is, "What are these quads doing on our mx tracks?! Shouldn't they be in the parking lot, doing doughnuts?"

Sport quads are such an abomination!

Edited June 12, 2012 by RedRider31

[Fade]

Quads are sketchy as well. Try taking a corner as quick on a quad as you do on your bike. It's so sketchy as hell!

Uhhh...you must not be doing it right, especially on flat corners, quads are EASY to go fast on in flat corners, and if theres a berm thats tall enough, quads are even easier to go fast on...

But my dirtbike is much more fun, so I doubt I'll ever buy a quad.

[motomatt16]

Bikes have a better power to weight ratio. If I'm not mistaken ( Which I might be), I have heard the dirtbikes have the best power to weight ratio out of any machine with wheels ( cars, F1, Nascar ). But again not sure if it's true.

New snowmobiles weigh about 420 ponds with 160+ horse they kick everyone's but

[shawn1331]

Uhhh...you must not be doing it right, especially on flat corners, quads are EASY to go fast on in flat corners, and if theres a berm thats tall enough, quads are even easier to go fast on...

But my dirtbike is much more fun, so I doubt I'll ever buy a quad.

I never said anything about a flat corner. Thats a no brainer, obviously it's easier. But maybe you're doing it wrong if you don't think it's sketchy to go around a rutted out corner.

Oh nvm you ride a 4 stroke. I'm a 2 stroke guy and I haul ass in corners anyways.

[quadrcr161]

quads still can still out coner bikes, your just riding it wrong, to go fast on a quad you have o use a lot of body english.

quick question, all those who say quads are easy, have you ever put any laps on one? or tried to do more then just put around ? sure its easy to ride around a open field, buts its challenging to actually controll one at speed and make corrections. i cant remember the last time ive ridden a bike, but i can hope on one and make it around, it would be easy to just ride but i know i couldnt push it. personally i dont like the drunks on quads as much as yo like the poser bros.

[RedRider31]

have you ever put any laps on one?

Why would anyone want to? Driving around on a rolling couch, destroying perfectly good ruts and berms on a track?

[quadrcr161]

guess not then, always give opinions on something you have no expeience with? can you not ride without the ruts like a slot car track?

why not? can be just as fun and as challenging, and something different. always why noone took me up when i offered any of my quads up for them to try. and before you sk why im here , good info on the 450s and was thinking of looking for xr400, but since i have quads i dout ill be welcome.