ballisticexchris

Maintenance, adjustments, and modifications to our Betas

1,507 posts in this topic

Typical RFS KTM motor, runs hot even when off. New rads are going to cost more than coolant and hoses. Start small or skip everything and get a new bike??

New bikes are just as bad as the 4 strokes already running.

It's not just that.. It's all 4 strokes.. 4 strokes run hotter than 2 strokes and 2 strokes boil too ..That's why Hawaii and it's tight trails are 2 stroke country first. My Beta was supposed to be more for DS but it just worked so well that it's been used for more and more hardcore tight stuff.. ..All this radiator water cooling bs is shit. It's ass backward that in the early 80's air cooled bikes were better for offroad. I never had any overheating issues then. I had a 230lb six speed animal that could ride the tightest stuff and go 90 mph without radiators or coolant or hoses or waterpumps, hoses or bearings seals and risk of smashing those radiators.. I keep going back to this rant but it's true that for tight offroad air cooling is better . Even for desert or most any racing for that matter. If you crash in any race and you smash your radiator your race is done. That is lame. Sometimes simplicity is the better avenue.

Ride had this air cooled project but I guess it's not done..

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/926564-this-must-be-exotic/

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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I would never give up my liquid for an air cooled. My liquid has never failed on any of my bikes over the years. My air cooled ran like crap when coated in 2" of mud. My fan cooled snowmobile stopped running from overheated while the liquid just kept going. There's a placed for air cooled and that placed was 30 years ago. If your bike is set-up for the type of riding, you will never boil over. Just like EFI, better like the liquid because soon you will not have a choice.

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This is fromTim Pilg

The CV4 hoses will reduce the temps by about 5%. They are much cleaner routing over the stock hoses and will eliminate the thermostat.

I would recommend the fan kit for sure as we see a dramatic change in the engine temps when going through more technical terrain.

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Yup but they don't. Mine has not had any issues at all mostly riding tight slow trails, and if I was not going to be riding in Idaho in August I would not put one on.

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I would never give up my liquid for an air cooled. My liquid has never failed on any of my bikes over the years. My air cooled ran like crap when coated in 2" of mud. My fan cooled snowmobile stopped running from overheated while the liquid just kept going. There's a placed for air cooled and that placed was 30 years ago. If your bike is set-up for the type of riding, you will never boil over. Just like EFI, better like the liquid because soon you will not have a choice.

"If your bike is set-up for the type of riding, you will never boil over"... That my friend is pure bs. I myself have had at least 4 overheating failures times on my cr and it is common for water pump seals to go out along with the shaft and bearing..So much so that riders just buy the seals and gaskets ahead of time . The dealerships stock up and know what to sell you . For the cr it's a gasket, a shaft, a bearing and a seal for the waterpump.. runs around a hundred bucks when that happens. Guys keep car heater hose in their packs for hose failure.. guys buy a multitude of different mods including what I have already mentioned to deal with radiator problems. For whatever problems air cooling has had it's a hell of a lot less. That's not to mention radiator guards and smashes.. getting big radiators to deal with etc.. You must ride wide open stuff . Then you don't have a problem...but you aren't correct in speaking for everyone and everywhere. Today my buddy is changing his ktm 450 09' waterpump seal... for the second time. For hard technical slow trails overheating is common enough here and from reading other threads it's common enough in other parts of the country... A lot of cooling products are for sale..boyesen water pumps, fluidyne radiators, radiator guards, special hose, fans, caps, inline coolers... It's ridiculous and a rip off to me...especially for offroad. but it's like 250 2 strokes racing against 450's unfair and not making sense but still happening.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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I'm suprise he didn't tell you to get the updated water pump also. IF these bikes need the fan for technical terrian then they should come with it!

Do ktm's and all the other brands all come with fans and updated cooling products?..as options..

https://www.google.com/search?q=ktmtalk&aq=f&oq=ktmtalk&aqs=chrome.0.57j5j0l2j62l2.2895&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=serp&gs_mss=ktmtalk%20o&tok=XWLYnKiPXj9tykXaB9NTwg&pq=ktmtalk%20overheating&cp=4&gs_id=1w&xhr=t&q=ktms+overheating&es_nrs=true&pf=p&tbo=d&biw=1451&bih=732&sclient=psy-ab&oq=ktms+overheating&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.cGE&fp=59ff09474df7c5fb

https://www.google.com/search?q=ktmtalk&aq=f&oq=ktmtalk&aqs=chrome.0.57j5j0l2j62l2.2895&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=husabergs+overheating&oq=husabergs+overheating&gs_l=serp.3...58376.62156.2.62831.9.9.0.0.0.1.336.1756.0j8j0j1.9.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.cQw_wonieJQ&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.cGE&fp=59ff09474df7c5fb&biw=1451&bih=732

https://www.google.com/search?q=ktmtalk&aq=f&oq=ktmtalk&aqs=chrome.0.57j5j0l2j62l2.2895&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=yz+overheating&oq=yz+overheating&gs_l=serp.12..0i7j0i7i30l3.0.0.4.10341.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.BLt35mcDNpk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.cGE&fp=59ff09474df7c5fb&biw=1451&bih=732

https://www.google.com/search?q=ktmtalk&aq=f&oq=ktmtalk&aqs=chrome.0.57j5j0l2j62l2.2895&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=crf+overheating&oq=crf+overheating&gs_l=serp.3..0i7j0i7i30l2j0i30.0.0.6.717.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.KoiNiBq3YT4&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.cGE&fp=59ff09474df7c5fb&biw=1451&bih=732

https://www.google.com/search?q=ktmtalk&aq=f&oq=ktmtalk&aqs=chrome.0.57j5j0l2j62l2.2895&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=kxf+overheating&oq=kxf+overheating&gs_l=serp.3..0i7i30.10337.10337.8.10941.1.1.0.0.0.0.265.265.2-1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.Hw25cJN-SrQ&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.cGE&fp=59ff09474df7c5fb&biw=1451&bih=732

https://www.google.com/search?q=ktmtalk&aq=f&oq=ktmtalk&aqs=chrome.0.57j5j0l2j62l2.2895&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=gasgas+overheating&oq=gasgas+overheating&gs_l=serp.3..0i13i30j0i8i13i30l2.35869.37996.9.38692.7.7.0.0.0.0.310.1517.0j4j1j2.7.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.VyDZgCgzX0o&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.cGE&fp=59ff09474df7c5fb&biw=1451&bih=732

It really is a rip off... It's just that no choice is given to us.

A blaster 200 air cooled 6 speed motor in an updated frame would sell huge.. and it would be cheap and simple and just work well.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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"If your bike is set-up for the type of riding, you will never boil over"... That my friend is pure bs. I myself have had at least 4 overheating failures times on my cr and it is common for water pump seals to go out along with the shaft and bearing..So much so that riders just buy the seals and gaskets ahead of time . The dealerships stock up and know what to sell you . For the cr it's a gasket, a shaft, a bearing and a seal for the waterpump.. runs around a hundred bucks when that happens. Guys keep car heater hose in their packs for hose failure.. guys buy a multitude of different mods including what I have already mentioned to deal with radiator problems. For whatever problems air cooling has had it's a hell of a lot less. That's not to mention radiator guards and smashes.. getting big radiators to deal with etc.. You must ride wide open stuff . Then you don't have a problem...but you aren't correct in speaking for everyone and everywhere. Today my buddy is changing his ktm 450 09' waterpump seal... for the second time. For hard technical slow trails overheating is common enough here and from reading other threads it's common enough in other parts of the country... A lot of cooling products are for sale..boyesen water pumps, fluidyne radiators, radiator guards, special hose, fans, caps, inline coolers... It's ridiculous and a rip off to me...especially for offroad. but it's like 250 2 strokes racing against 450's unfair and not making sense but still happening.

So you telling me your CR is an enduro bike?? Last time I checked it was more of a MX bike then tight singletrack. Here's the problem, people take bikes that were design for different use and expect not to have issues. If you know you burn out gasket, bearing and shafts then change out like you do with oil/filters. This would be proper set-up or rid yourself of the problem bike. I ride tight single track when I am off road. I also have rode many times in 90*+ and stuck on a hill idling. Are these temps extreme?? not really but if I did ride in the extreme I am condifient my bike would not overheat. I have yet to have a boil over because my bikes are set-up for this type of riding. Back many years my son's bike KTM 50 sr. would over heat in the woods. I cured that by adding engine ice, different cap, 2 cool oil additive and a different clutch (more for performance). Again set-up for the woods! Some bikes are prone to over heat like older KTM's. Cheap fixes are out there and many don't have issues that call for $1000 of parts. I don't speak for everyone and never said I did. There are far more people riding in hot conditions than a little island that have set thier bikes up for the type of conditions they ride in. These are the people that don't have issues. "If your bike is set-up for the type of riding, you will never boil over"... is only BS because you want to see it that way.Same thinking as 4t don't last as long as 2t and are a slow!

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Do ktm's and all the other brands all come with fans and updated cooling products?..as options..

https://www.google.c...9ff09474df7c5fb

https://www.google.c...iw=1451&bih=732

https://www.google.c...iw=1451&bih=732

https://www.google.c...iw=1451&bih=732

https://www.google.c...iw=1451&bih=732

https://www.google.c...iw=1451&bih=732

It really is a rip off... It's just that no choice is given to us.

A blaster 200 air cooled 6 speed motor in an updated frame would sell huge.. and it would be cheap and simple and just work well.

Not all but many of these bikes are MX riding on the trail. Not an excuse but most MX bikes have smaller coolant systems. Not saying bikes don't boil over but if you do your homework and set-up, less issues you will have.

Husqvarna's come with a fan and aftermarket kits are available for most brands. KTM should come with a fan and are the leader in cooling issues. Most KTM issues are solve with a new cap, hoses and additives to the coolant. The benifet of liquid cooled motors outways the cons and soon EPA will elimate the air cooled models or reduce the models to a minumin like small trail bore bikes. Air cooled motors are simple and yes they don't boil over but that doesn't mean they don't come with other heat issues that are unseen. Do they still make that blaster?? No they stopped that because the market wanted better without going 2x motor size! Locally here the blaster was a entry level quad that anyone could own, just many dodn't own them for long.

Edited by weantright

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Cooling issues. Yikes!! My 300 has been a boiler since brand new. I tried everything short of new radiators. Engine ice, overflow bottle, high pressure rad cap, water wetter, setting my Rekluse clutch to low idle engagement, etc. Nothing worked.

I finally went with Evens coolant. At least now it doesn't boil. The temps hover around 270 when in the hard core, slow single track (same as when using regular coolant). Almost three seasons and counting using this coolant.

My air cooled XR600 NEVER had any overheating issues. My dipstick gauge did get up to 325 deg once or twice. That bike never let me down.

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Cooling issues. Yikes!! My 300 has been a boiler since brand new. I tried everything short of new radiators. Engine ice, overflow bottle, high pressure rad cap, water wetter, setting my Rekluse clutch to low idle engagement, etc. Nothing worked.

I finally went with Evens coolant. At least now it doesn't boil. The temps hover around 270 when in the hard core, slow single track (same as when using regular coolant). Almost three seasons and counting using this coolant.

My air cooled XR600 NEVER had any overheating issues. My dipstick gauge did get up to 325 deg once or twice. That bike never let me down.

See I guess I have to put Evans at some point since I've put just about every other mod so far... This overheating problem..

It's so common place it's ridiculous and it isn't even questioned anymore..Most everyone doesn't even acknowleddge it's idiocy. Yet check the tons and tons of threads for all 2 stroke offroad bikes dealing with issues that they never had to before and having to pay way more money and have to change riding style to stop for boiling.. The bike is vulnerable to crashes and system failure in multiple areas. It's stupid that my 1982 husky 430 xc never had a problem riding the same trails I am riding today and as a much younger man I rode way harder and abusive. As a vet rider I am way easier on my bike in riding style and awareness of bike protection. I just talked to 2 locals that have made hybrids. One is an 85 kdx in a kx125 frame and the other is a blaster motor in a yz 125 frame.. both sub 200 lbs and none of the bs radiator crap to deal with for riding local trails.. but when I look at the tons of overheating threads and the overheating products and radiator guards for sale it's obvious this is a widespread illness. Maybe it's designed obsolescence. .so we can get &%$#@!ed having to pay more money and deal with heat issues and give dealerships and companies more money. It's like that with 4 strokes in motocross . Notice 2 strokes are alive and the prefferred trail bike around here. It's making a resurgence in other places too. This particular issue is one that I am sensitive to as I have spent lots of money and time dealing with when I spent absolutely NO time dealing with in the early 80's and before. To me this is &%$#@!ing stupid. I will at some time make or buy a hybrid of my own...A super light 200 with no overheating issues is an advanced bike even though the motor is an old design.

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So you telling me your CR is an enduro bike?? Last time I checked it was more of a MX bike then tight singletrack. Here's the problem, people take bikes that were design for different use and expect not to have issues. If you know you burn out gasket, bearing and shafts then change out like you do with oil/filters. This would be proper set-up or rid yourself of the problem bike. I ride tight single track when I am off road. I also have rode many times in 90*+ and stuck on a hill idling. Are these temps extreme?? not really but if I did ride in the extreme I am condifient my bike would not overheat. I have yet to have a boil over because my bikes are set-up for this type of riding. Back many years my son's bike KTM 50 sr. would over heat in the woods. I cured that by adding engine ice, different cap, 2 cool oil additive and a different clutch (more for performance). Again set-up for the woods! Some bikes are prone to over heat like older KTM's. Cheap fixes are out there and many don't have issues that call for $1000 of parts. I don't speak for everyone and never said I did. There are far more people riding in hot conditions than a little island that have set thier bikes up for the type of conditions they ride in. These are the people that don't have issues. "If your bike is set-up for the type of riding, you will never boil over"... is only BS because you want to see it that way.Same thinking as 4t don't last as long as 2t and are a slow!

Yea my cr is an enduro bike . Especially with the mods put on. ..but all the named specific enduro bikes boil so why think that my cr is worse?... and 4 strokes? They boil even more!!! It also doesn't matter how old or new the bike is either. Some people just live with it . or they just take breaks when they ride or they just don't ride tight stuff for extended periods of time or have some setups that are adequate for their needs. With the mods I have on my bikes I don't boil like I used . I hardly do and I take breaks to let the bike cool...to but I will boil in certain trails on wet muddy slippery days. I wont boil depending on which trail I choose and the conditions. When I rode my older air cooled bikes it just didn't matter. I just rode anywhere and as much as I wanted and didn't need to deal with boil over at all. I know this because I have been dealing with this ever since I came back to riding in 01' I have put on a pile of mods and tried a bunch of products on my bikes. I hate boiling in the trails and having my bike break down in the trails so it's an important issue that I have been consistently dealing with... and so have other riders ..here and everywhere that whatever trails that cause overheating. Look up just the few links I've listed for overheating for any kind of dirtbike above... "enduro" bikes included. Do husqvarnas overheat?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Husky+450+overheating&oq=Husky+450+overheating&aqs=chrome.0.57j62l3.15588&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Then you should sell these liquid bikes and buy that air cooled never breaks bike. Next your topic will be how can I get more power/performance out of my perfect blaster/xr600/it250? We want a powerful do all type bike with the durablity of the 30yr. bikes. Why do people trade thier DRZ, XR, KLR,,, for a KTM, Beta, Husky,,,,,?? Your spoiled with modern bikes just like the rest of us and can not go back!

Edited by weantright

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See I guess I have to put Evans at some point since I've put just about every other mod so far... This overheating problem..

It's so common place it's ridiculous and it isn't even questioned anymore..Most everyone doesn't even acknowleddge it's idiocy. Yet check the tons and tons of threads for all 2 stroke offroad bikes dealing with issues that they never had to before and having to pay way more money and have to change riding style to stop for boiling.. The bike is vulnerable to crashes and system failure in multiple areas. It's stupid that my 1982 husky 430 xc never had a problem riding the same trails I am riding today and as a much younger man I rode way harder and abusive. As a vet rider I am way easier on my bike in riding style and awareness of bike protection. I just talked to 2 locals that have made hybrids. One is an 85 kdx in a kx125 frame and the other is a blaster motor in a yz 125 frame.. both sub 200 lbs and none of the bs radiator crap to deal with for riding local trails.. but when I look at the tons of overheating threads and the overheating products and radiator guards for sale it's obvious this is a widespread illness. Maybe it's designed obsolescence. .so we can get &%$#@!ed having to pay more money and deal with heat issues and give dealerships and companies more money. It's like that with 4 strokes in motocross . Notice 2 strokes are alive and the prefferred trail bike around here. It's making a resurgence in other places too. This particular issue is one that I am sensitive to as I have spent lots of money and time dealing with when I spent absolutely NO time dealing with in the early 80's and before. To me this is &%$#@!ing stupid. I will at some time make or buy a hybrid of my own...A super light 200 with no overheating issues is an advanced bike even though the motor is an old design.

If there's a part someone can make money on, there will be someone willing to have it. Pit bikes are perfect example, $10-15,000 in a pit bike only to have 1/2 a bike compared to our big bikes.

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Then you should sell these liquid bikes and buy that air cooled never breaks bike. Next your topic will be how can I get more power/performance out of my perfect blaster/xr600/it250? We want a powerful do all type bike with the durablity of the 30yr. bikes. Why do people trade thier DRZ, XR, KLR,,, for a KTM, Beta, Husky,,,,,?? Your spoiled with modern bikes just like the rest of us and can not go back!

Some of the elements of the new bikes are awesome.. and it should be . This is 2013. They handle well , the suspension is plush and the motors work excellent except for this point of overheating. That's my point and I'm stating what's true. If you are an offroad guy that goes in harder trails why would anyone want a vulnerable bike? especially when you've had a bike that's less vulnerable. You mention DRZ, XR and KLR.. all big heavy turds for trails. How about an 1980 it 200 or an 85' kdx 200 or something else on the light 2 stroke side? The trick is to find a bigger bore air cooled motor that works in a new chassis like Ride has as a project. I'm just talking about what's good/bad and what I'd like. I'm not alone here . Like I said I know of 2 other hybrid air cooled bikes just locally and when I've been on threads about this in the past other vet trail guys chime in the same grumblings. Mainly because of the same overheating issues that they have been having but didn't have with their old air cooled bikes. It's simple really. Water cooled sucks for trails. Air cooling is better.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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IT200 and the KDX200 are a bit lame. If they updated those bikes to the newer suspension and frame, you will have a lame motor in a great frame/suspension. Better to start with those big turds and modify the frame/suspension.

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IT200 and the KDX200 are a bit lame. If they updated those bikes to the newer suspension and frame, you will have a lame motor in a great frame/suspension. Better to start with those big turds and modify the frame/suspension.

Maybe where you ride..

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      i wasn't leaving my bike down there or taking a 2000$ ambulance ride, my bike was a kickstart only so i had my buddy kick start it i got back on and i started to ride shifting with my heal, as i rode out i was looking for what i had hit i noticed it was a tree stump about 1ft tall and 8 or 9 inches wide, so i had 6 miles to get home by the half way point i couldn't use my heal it hurt so bad i started reaching down and shifting with my left hand no clutch.
      Well i got the bike home and had my girlfriend take me to the hospital, i knew it was bad but little did i know what i was about to go threw, so the first surgery was metal pins in my toes and about 30 plus stitches, a week later a second surgery to amputate my big toe because i had severed the main artery in the big toe and it lost circulation, well after another 6 days the whole top of the skin started turning black because of more loss of circulation because of the laceration across the whole center of the foot severd alot of blood vessels, so on my 3rd surgery they removed all the black skin including the skin that covered my amputation, and now after just having my 6th surgery they did a skin graft yesterday and a screw to hold sum bone together, im still in the hospital now and thinking about alot, one thing im thinking is that i regret so much leaving the house in work boots because they were not adequate protection, i own actual dirtbike boots and failed to wear them this time and this all most likely would have not happend or at least not been near as bad. So my advice is when you go ride WEAR sum actual dirt bike boots and if you dont own any go buy sum because it could save your toes or whole foot from a serious injury, and yes i knew this but my thinking was, im just going for a little quick ride and man do i regret that. I love riding and could never give it up, as soon as i heal up ill ride again but i will definitely invest in even more gear a be more cautious than i already was. So here are sum pics of the injury so far,
      dont look if you have a weak stomach or dont want to see blood and guts, don't scroll to my next post...