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hard to kick start Beta 350

By stroker,
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stroker

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Just had my first ever ride on a Beta 350RR.

I really liked the bike, but after many years of racing 4 strokes, I have to say this bike is hard to kick over.

I am curious why this little 350 was so hard to kick over, if felt like there is no auto de-compression, the motor felt super tight, the bike has 800 miles on it.

Any tips? is something wrong??

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Bark3rd

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I hear ya, my 2011 450RR is ridiculously hard to kick and I'm 6'2" 200 lbs! Keep that battery charged and just don't kick it. The difficulty is not related to a "starting drill" there's just a huge amount of mechanical resistance to moving the lever downwards compared to other bikes. It will kickstart though, I've done it. At least the kick lever is on the left side and not on the right like some other exotics. I love my Beta.

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ballisticexchris

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I hear ya, my 2011 450RR is ridiculously hard to kick and I'm 6'2" 200 lbs! Keep that battery charged and just don't kick it. The difficulty is not related to a "starting drill" there's just a huge amount of mechanical resistance to moving the lever downwards compared to other bikes. It will kickstart though, I've done it. At least the kick lever is on the left side and not on the right like some other exotics. I love my Beta.

Not to argue, but it is related to the starting drill. My 520 starts first or 2nd kick every time hot or cold. I normally use the electric start. But it still kicks over fine. I'm 5' 9" 190 lbs no starting issues at all.

How many hours are on your bikes? Have you checked your valves? IMO this bike has way less resistance at the kick lever than my Honda 650R. Now that bike was a BEAST to start.

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stroker

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I have owned 54 dirt bikes, race at the expert level. over half my bikes were four strokes. I have owned bikes with no auto decompression, so I am very familiar with the starting drill. I am good at "the drill" to start these things, but this is different!

The best way to describe this, there is a LOT of mechanical resistance to rolling the kick starter through the stroke. I am 185 LBS and 6 ft 1 in I am more than capable of kicking any bike over.

The battery went dead on a short ride, probably because it is so hard to turn the motor. So I had to kick it, it was so "tight" feeling I thought it was seizing.

The only other time I recall something like this was a buddy rebuilt his 250 4 stroke, he incorrectly installed the auto cam chain tensioner, it was fully extended and he forced the adjusted back in with an air rachet. There was so much tension on the cam chain that the cam and the crank were tied together very tightly (like they are forcibly pulled towards each other instead of "floating" in their bearings/races), that motor could not be spun fast enough to allow teh bike to be started, lots of resistance).

I backed off the two bolts holding the cam chain auto adjuster assembly, and the motor spun easily. Reset the auto adjuster correctly and problem solved.

I have no manuels, not my bike, it is a demo, just trying to sort it for a good test ride tomorrow. This bike appears to have a cam adjuster/tensioner that is operated on hydro pressure (like a KTM). I have not taken it apart yet. Anybody had one of these things jam? like the pressure builds up and does release? that could be teh source of this tight motor.

I am just hoping someone else can confirm they are all "tight" or this one bike has an issue, if so, what the usual culprits would be!

Thank you everyone for any suggestions!

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stroker

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ok, just tried to kick it again, it is easily 50% easier to kick this morning with a cold motor than it was yesterday during the shake down ride with a hot motor, yesterday, the bike could not be kicked fast enough to start it, but it would roll start. Yesterday, you could stand on the kicker, it would not roll through, put the bike in gear try to push it to rotate the crank past TDC, try again, still VERY hard to move it, could only be kicked far to slow to start it. No wonder the battery ran down!!

It is still harder to kick than my CRF450 or my XR650, but much easier now than yesterday.

Has anyone had a defective cam chain automatic tensioner? like the bleed off valve is plugged or sticks??? Any other guesses??

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redpillar

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I have kicked mine over twice, once when hot and it was really hard to move the kick starter, and I just went and kicked it over while cold. It was really easy, and started first kick. It turns over easily with the push button most of the time.

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uptite

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Most E-start motors seem harder to k-start because of the following reasons.

E-start mtrs have a lot of extra parts inside as in back fire clutches,extra gears, one way bearings just a lot more parts that have to move.

Most if not all E-start mtrs have some sort of Decomp mechanism, They vary also from K-start only to E-start by the counter weighting. To cut it short they can be different K-start only easier to kick and E-start harder to kick.

Keep seeing people say get it past TDC then kick it. This is not going to start it because it has already sparked BTDC and would have to go thru 3 more strokes to get back to comp stroke to start.

What has to happen is when on the comp stroke the piston is comming up and the valves close comp is starting to build then to the point it's almost solid, it's at this point that the comp release opens an Exhaust valve this bleeds off comp by moving the k lever down an inch this has repositioned the piston up higher in the stroke then it starts to build comp again just this time it's like a 250 not a 500 and you can kick it thru. The auto decomps do this automatically.

Later George

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dirtbird

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Just had my first ever ride on a Beta 350RR.

I really liked the bike, but after many years of racing 4 strokes, I have to say this bike is hard to kick over.

I am curious why this little 350 was so hard to kick over, if felt like there is no auto de-compression, the motor felt super tight, the bike has 800 miles on it.

Any tips? is something wrong??

No, its just still very new. As the motor breaks in , kick starting will be easier.

However, the 'dead' feel already desribed will be there but with time it will be easier to kick it.

A fix -maybe- might be the new for 2013 decompression arrangement on the camshaft although this was modified in order to help the e-start.

From my experience with a 2013, kick starting is the same but the bike is almost new.

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ballisticexchris

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Just kicked mine over the other day using my tried and true "starting drill". She started cold 2nd kick after setting over a week. I guess it paid off having the beast of a bike, Honda 650R all those years! Not sure if the way I start a 4T is the right way. All I know is it works for me.

Still, I bought this bike so I don't have to kick it over. It is nice to know that it still starts super easy with the kick just in case. Wish I had something other than my KTM 300 to kick over back to back so I could see what you guys are talking about (mechanical resistance). It seemed just as easy as any bike to start.

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hawaiidirtrider

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No, its just still very new. As the motor breaks in , kick starting will be easier.

However, the 'dead' feel already desribed will be there but with time it will be easier to kick it.

A fix -maybe- might be the new for 2013 decompression arrangement on the camshaft although this was modified in order to help the e-start.

From my experience with a 2013, kick starting is the same but the bike is almost new.

This is exactly it to me. I'm around 230 6'1 and I was going through this too. When my bike was new I was worried. My bike overheated and the battery died also...multiple times.. :banghead: Of course another main problem was that I was taking my bike in hard core technical very slow trails with riverbeds and mud etc right off the bat. You know the kind with no wind going through the radiators.... I kind of didn't plan it but just enjoyed the bike and ended up charging stuff maybe I should have waited a bit to do ...My bike that was supposed to be a light trails bike that's a dualsport ended up in some brutal stuff like I took my 2 stroke in. Going so slow...the bike would overheat..the bike would barely turn over or I'd jump on the crank only for my body to cave while the crank stayed put laughing at me. I went through some batteries and didn't realize till later that there was just a break in period that I had to go through . After I spent hundreds on batteries lithium and otherwise the motor eased into the correct tolerances. Now it's one to 2 cranks to start and earlier I went through an expensive and irritating lesson that lasted many months.

It just had to break in.

I've been a 2 stroke guy ..I didn't know ..and I just learned the hard way. Now I still go in hard core technical slow trails..maybe not as hard as my 2 stroke but still difficult but I don't have dead batteries and my bike runs cooler too. It's one crank and 2 cranks most of the time.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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Bark3rd

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Since my 11 450RR is also hard to kick, there seems to be a trend here. My bike has about 15 race hours on it, so still pretty new. I was able to kick it the other day, it seemed to be slightly easier than when I first got it. It does have a "dead" feeling when you kick it.

Unrelated Note: What an awesome bike this is! I pre-rode part of a very technical enduro course on which we will be racing next week (helped hang a few markers too). I added a Rekluse Core EXP, GPR V4 stabilizer (watch your throttle cable clearance), ditched the stock tires for some MX71s (blew the knobs of the stock rear), and dialed back the compression until this thing just started flying through rock gardens. It turns much better as well and settles into the corner. The stock tires are junk, at least on the 450- lose them asap.

I think the bike is geared too tall for tight woods and 0 transition hill climbs, going to a larger rear sprocket for the next race. First and second are just too tall nearly everywhere. It works but would be better if just a bit shorter.

With the changes listed I can now charge loose rock downhills, 3rd gear rocky straights with large loose rocks, and everything in between like no other bike I have had. The motor is just so perfect for technical trails with a slight flow (2nd gear on the gas type of stuff depending on your skill level-I race in open B at 43 yrs old). Used the E start today about a hundred times after waiting for my C rider buddy to catch up, it will start in gear with no probs and seems to self-charge well.

Surprisingly, the lowered compression setting also settled the bike down on higher speed sandy stuff with kicker jumps in the transfer sections. If you watch Jimmy Lewis' you tube vid on the 2010 he mentions "getting it to rider lower really helped" I think he was right, this bike rides really high in the stroke and feels harsh with too much compression (more so than other bikes-I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs with stock springs). I always needed to dial in more comp then stock on all my KTMs to get them to handle correctly.

In addition to these mods I also very carefully aligned the forks with a motion pro fork alignment tool, I highly reccommend this thing.

Just a few tips for these relatively rare bikes that you don't hear too often, hope it helps someone. These bikes deserve more attention, very pleased with mine.

Edited by Bark3rd
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Bark3rd

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Thanks for the tips, what do you have the compression set at, and what countershaft sprocket are you using?

Sorry I can't tell you the setting, I just kept fiddling with it until I got the feedback I was looking for like I always do (I don't understand some of my buddies who never touch their clickers and ride in the A class, lol). After the race I will make a note of the clicker settings and repost. I just figured out that the wall of spare KTM sprockets I have hanging in the garage won't fit this bike so still running stock gearing. It works OK if I stay on the gas which I need to do anyway plus I'm running a Rekluse which eliminated the stalls I was getting due to the tall gearing. On my 2ts I always liked to climb slimy technical stuff in second gear using the auto clutch, but I had them geared down. I bet I could hit 50 mph in second gear on the Beta! I agree with the guy who posted earlier about how the compression forces involved with shorter gearing affect the suspension feel, it's so good now I don't want to mess with it yet. At first I thought I had made a mistake choosing to give up my 2ts and race a 450 but finally learned how to ride this thing differently, in a way that works for me in the woods (usually at low revs, lots of momentum, crash through things I used to dance around, trust it to track straight-and it does). You have to ride this bike standing up, and trust it. I have had fewer crashes so far on it compared to my 2ts, on those it was always from suddenly losing traction on the front wheel. Doesn't happen with this locomotive. Here's a vid of my first day racing the Beta chasing an A rider on his GG 250, I wasn't comfortable on it yet and going soooo slow. Funny how I kept blipping the throttle like my 125 to "keep her lit up" -not neccessary when you have power everywhere! https://vimeo.com/40914128

Edited by Bark3rd
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