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2013 250SXF Question about direction

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@tye1138: what tracks do you ride?

Mostly torn up hard pack tracks. So out here in order of visiting the most; Milestone, Pala, Elsinore, Glen Helen, Perris, Cahuilla and Comp Edge.

Sadly, Milestone is my closest "facility", so its where I go the most and it sucks. The dirt is good in the morning, but around noon it falls part and everyone goes home when it does. The place is deserted at 1 ish because nobody wants to deal with the beat up track. On the weekends, I wanna put in as many laps as possible, so I ride all morning and all afternoon.

Edited by tye1138

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have you not a local tuner you can work with? someone who you can come to the track and dial you in?

I've worked with three local tuners, none of which were willing to meet me at the track. One of them did however give me his direct cell phone and helped me over the phone a bunch, but that was Factory Connection and they were the first tuners to tell me flat out, what I wanted from the WP components was impossible to achieve.

See, my problem with tuners is pretty simple, nobody agrees on anything, everyone has their own idea's, their own concepts for making the bike work. That inconsistency is what drives me crazy! One guy says do this, the next guy says do this, the third guy says the other two guys were wrong and goes an entirely different direction. Meanwhile, I'm not riding the bike because the suspension lives in the shipping boxes going back and forward to the different tuners.

Perhaps if I had just dealt with MX Tech from the beginning and spent thousands up front, my pinger would work. But I didn't have any faith that would be the case.

im with doc, i believe you seek something that really isnt achievabel.

I know it IS achievable because I've ridden bikes that don't have these issues. In fact, no other bike I've ever ridden, suffers from the Austrian Jackhammer issues.

watching someone elses bike over the rough stuff, however well setup - you cant feel what he's feeling - and he's just more commited. no suspension works right unless your commited to every bump.

I also get to ride those bikes, so I've felt what they feel.

Plus, when you hit a row of breaking bumps and YOUR rear end is up in the air the whole time and THEIR rear end is on the ground, don't you think thats an issue?

the comparison between a 07 and a new bike is un comparable - even with the forks, its a completely different chassis and reacts a different way. ive done a lot of the new ktms and there pretty good when dialled in, from weekend warrior to pro, never really had the issues you state.

Ahh see, there is the disconnect and that phrase again; "pretty good". I don't have any interest in good, ok, acceptable. Those three words, don't exist in my vocabulary.

Many people have ridden my pinger and those who know 2 strokes come off it and say its down right amazing. Some of the more experienced riders, people who have been riding for decades, don't understand how I got the package so fine tuned. I myself have never ridden a better 2 stroke out of all the bikes I've ridden. On a day where the track isn't so bumpy, I kick ass on the bike, I'm usually one of the quickest guys on the track at any given time. However, that amazing bike is plagued by OK/Acceptable suspension which becomes very harsh when the track gets bumpy. I'm tired of pretty good suspension, I'm tired of the austrian jackhammer, I'm tired of the stigmatism that goes along with it. When I ride my bike, I want to be blown away at how AMAZING it is because I've spent thousands tuning the motors and fueling, just to have substandard suspension ruin my ride.

the wp suspension these days are no different to anything else, you will not find your answers in going down the ohlins route, i deal with david - hes a good guy, he'll certainly sell you the right ohlins setup, but it wont be night and day better than a well setup wp - if any better.

Everyone who has made the switch from highly modified WP components to Öhlins, has said it was a night and day difference.

Plus, the Öhlins don't cost a lot of money. You can sell the stock WP components for $1500 bux easily and only be in the hole about $2 grand. Which any good WP setup will cost about a grand to start with once you count in springs, valve replacements, labor and shipping. So basically, I'm spending an extra grand to get far better components, made by a company who I trust.

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I got $400 + 40 for shipping toward your 13 WP forks......If your selling?

They will work good good on my 450w...after a little valving

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Plus, when you hit a row of breaking bumps and YOUR rear end is up in the air the whole time and THEIR rear end is on the ground, don't you think thats an issue?

Well if that's happening you have A- something wrong in your setup.

Or B - a lot wrong with your riding!

Or both.

Seriously if your going home when the track roughs up then id find another sport.

What time do the experts and pro's turn up? Lunchtime when the tracks rough. Anyone can ride a flat track.

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And I know plenty of people that buy ohlins only to be very disappointed !

I think a lot of people buy a "boxed" solution and assume it works. Even my Öhlins guy said, anyone who buys box Öhlins is wasting their money.

He mentioned all the work he has to do in order for the stuff to work. Its a pretty long list including changing the shims, springs and oil height. But also the bladder pressure on the forks and shortening the length of the shock shaft. It takes him a few hours to build a Öhlins kit properly, tailored to the rider.

It would be nice to know wether the people you know who don't like the Öhlins, have 2013 components and had someone set them up properly. From my understanding prior to 2012, the Öhlins forks didn't work. This is because they didn't have the proper development team. But the 2013 components were developed by Mike Alessi's team and thats when they figured out how to make the stuff work properly.

I hope you find your nirvana ....

I have never been let down by Öhlins or David my tuner. He has always given me exactly what I wanted. When I explained to him my issues, all he had to say was, "thats exactly what WP stuff is like".

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And that's exactly what a wp salesman would say about ohlins is it not?

David's a good guy. And I'm positive they will be as good as ohlins can be if he's doing them.

BUT - I do feel you'll be back with issues.

That said I hope it works out for you !

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What time do the experts and pro's turn up? Lunchtime when the tracks rough. Anyone can ride a flat track.

Most of the fast amateurs, ride for a few hours in the morning when the track is perfect, put in their laps and go home. In my three years of riding motocross, at least 20 hrs a month, hitting up 5 different facilities, 11 different tracks, I have never seen a fast amateur stay when the track is beat up. Most of the guys who stay late like me, are rookies or kids working with their parents or a trainer. You see A LOT of youth staying late, as they're learning how to ride through the rough tracks. But amateur B, A, pro class riders? No way, they come in, ride and go home.

In addition to that, the top national AMA Pro's ride at my tracks as well. There is hardly a day during the week, when the track isn't flooded with pro's practicing. They show up early, like 9 ish, put in a few moto's and the moment the track starts to get beat up, they're out. In fact, most of them leave before they water the track for the 2nd time, which is around 11 ish, so earlier then anyone else. Sometimes if the track is really mint, I mean perfect, they'll stay longer, but anytime after noon, forget it.

I had always assumed Pro's rode all day in the worst conditions. But I learned by hanging out with them, its not the case. They prefer perfect tracks and as soon as the track gets beat up, they're goin' home.

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And that's exactly what a wp salesman would say about ohlins is it not?

There is a HUGE difference between suspension which is on a bike, built for a specific type of bike, vs a brown box with some gold in it. The WP stuff will be setup damping/shim/spring wise, properly for the given bike. The Öhlins stuff isn't setup at all, its literally like buying a box of parts you need to assemble.

David's a good guy. And I'm positive they will be as good as ohlins can be if he's doing them.

Yes sir.

BUT - I do feel you'll be back with issues.

I don't think so, I think I'll have more faith in these components and their ability to work then the WP stuff. Its a mental thing I know, but as I pointed out above, riding motorcycles quickly is all about having faith in your equipment. No faith, no quick riding! :)

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Your stuff sounds almost as bad as my $2500+ multiple revalves on my Showas. I feel your pain! Hope your new year brings happiness.

Edited by YHGEORGE

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LOL are you serious? Where do you come up with this stuff? What/who are you going to blame after you spend the money for Ohlins and it's still not perfect? Honestly I think your outta shape and scared of a rough MX track which it seems no one must of told you is usually full of bumps. This is a tough sport and you seem to be one of those "fair weather" "riders" instead of a MX "racer". I think that you need to get out of this sport and take up chess. Then you can get on the chess message boards and start complaining about cramping fingers from pushing chess pieces around the board all day....

doc

Wow Doc...why so harsh? I would never say...oh wait? Never mind... :rolleyes:

:lol:

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You guy's are beating a dead horse here. If you notice that he has all the answers for everyone who has offered help. He has pretty much, put down every tuners advise on this board that have year and years of experience, with statements like "Where does your information come from? Little elf's who drop by your shop on a winters day? LOL"

Doc has about as many years doing suspension as this guy's age.

Don't feed into this guy's ego any more.

Buy the Ohlins and be done with it.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Russ

WOW. You too Russ...where is the love? Maybe I'm just going soft... ;):lol:

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And I know plenty of people that buy ohlins only to be very disappointed !

I hope you find your nirvana ....

Are they disappointed with the product or the surly condescending nature of the supplier..assuming of course that you didn't sell it, the discount outlet did..

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Are they disappointed with the product or the surly condescending nature of the supplier..assuming of course that you didn't sell it, the discount outlet did..

Exactly!

Everyone wants the best deal, but sometimes the best deal doesn't equate to the best components.

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Depends. If you ask the people who buy aftermarket wp like the trax shock I bet there not dissapointed.

For a ktm if a personal setup isn't good enough that's we're I would spend the money.

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