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2013 250SXF Question about direction

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Yea, I heard the TRAX works great, even from David. Though its a lot of money for just a shock.

The problem is, once you go down the road of making the stock stuff work and you don't like the outcome, you never get that money back.

At least with different components, if you don't like them, you can sell them and get most of your money back if not all of it.

Plus, if I don't like the Öhlins, heh... I'm SCREWED! So I'd better LOVE THEM! HA!

In your first few pages of dribble you were saying the Ohlins shock shits all over WP Trax, but now your saying it works great :smashpc:

Another classic Tye thread.... your off ya head bro :rant:

Dave at FBI used to get on this board every now and then, I wonder what he would think of this thread.... i reckon he would be cringing after reading this dribble and the thought of trying to help this muppet out.

Do you know what your getting yourself into Dave, you are his "guy" now and good "friend" :lol:

Edited by yamaha227

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I'm not sure why this thread is still open. It's dissolved from a disagreement on the subject matter to personal attacks.

I agree with you, i dont know why people cant just shut up instead of going on a personal witch-hunt.

In my opinion the people responding to this shit has equal amount of problem, so if you dont have any specific tips that can be connected to start-up of this thread - SHUT THE &%$#@! UP.

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But, aren't you responding to this "shit"? Swearing? Yelling? Is that any better? If you're referring to Bodie, he was just ribbing the guy because he was getting all squirrely. Maybe folks shouldn't be ssssso sssssensitive on the all seriuz interwebz?

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I think Tye's deal is he knows a little too much about motorcycles for his own good. When you're starting out, piss and vinegar goes a lot further in developing your skills then the "perfect" setup

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I think Tye's deal is he knows a little too much about motorcycles for his own good. When you're starting out, piss and vinegar goes a lot further in developing your skills then the "perfect" setup

I don't think he knows enough.......a little less then 3yrs on a dirtbike is nothing in terms of time.....20hrs a month is nothing to brag about. I havent seen them on here in a while but Llamaface and his wife put on a couple hundred hrs a year on their bikes........

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I'm willing to bet this is how a conversation between the subject matter at hand and somebody trying to help him goes:

I can't wait for "subject matter at hand's" next ride report!!!!!

;):thumbsup:

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against my better judgement I will try to add to this thread. In 2011 I had a rmz 450 with revalved stock suspension [ FC] & a pro circuit pipe .My Rich buddy has the same bike Only he wants to out do me & spends the bucks on showa a kit . After 3 revalves he thinks its working Ok .I suggest this .

we have a younger friend who had just moved up to the B class do 4 - 3 lap motos back 2 back & do lap times. Guess what by looking at the times you could not tell which bike he was riding. I came to this conclusion unless you haul the mail or have the look at me syndrome .That stuff is not worth the money.

The same friend bought the 12.5 dungey bike had mx tech revalve it 2-3 times then purchased an Ohlins fork & shock after 2 revalves sold the ohlins on ebay . thensold the dungy & started over with A 13 ktm 450He is using my guys now & is mostly satisifed, Although he has a deposit on the new 13 dungey replica . He will admit spending that amount of money was silly but now he knows all about it & maybe proper technique is key. Cost him about 15k to educate himself.

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While this thread is comical... I see why Tye is upset. Bad suspension can be very discouraging and he may feel like he has done everything he "can" do to them without going with kit suspension even though that will need work as well. I also see why the tuners on here are upset with Tye. I think they are telling you that you are going to be chasing your tail with the Ohlins stuff and will have the same issues because they will not be set up properly either to compensate for what you want out of them.

I dont believe that there are many suspension set ups out there that can not be made to work. I bought a basket case 96 yz and wanted to race it for fun at some of the smaller local events and use it as a practice bike. I contacted my suspension guy and asked on here and they both told me the same things. Get a revalve, upgrade the wear parts that they have avail in stock, one step stiffer springs than I would normally run and find someone to source me/ or make me some bottoming cones. Luckily my suspension guy is top notch and was willing to do all the B**** work for me. He made me some springs since none of his suppliers carried what I wanted and he cut me some cones on his cnc.

They are better than my 03 forks and on par with my 08 SSS forks, no doubt. I could not believe the transformation. Then again they were taken apart and put back together about 10 times by my tuner to get them perfect, but I had him at the track with me as well. I was confused when he said he wanted to watch me take the long straight about 10x before we went any further. When I told him that the bike felt like it was drifting from side to side when I was hard on the gas out of the corner he knew exactly what to do. I never would have told him that if he didnt make me ride that section because I thought my back end was just breaking loose. When in fact he told me that he could tell something was not right when I was at the apex of the corner and getting on the throttle, he said it was because the bike was trying to stand up on me while I was trying to lean it further. Then it was on to the sand whoops which required another setting change, then onto over jumping, and casing jump on purpose, all while coming back and telling him exactly what the bike "felt" like so he could adjust. It all comes down to translating what the suspension/ bike is currently doing and exactly what you want to be better. I could not come back and tell him "they are harsh" and expect him to have any clue where or how they were harsh. Dude brought his camcorder and watched me very very closely every weekend for about a month before we got it dialed in. Its not a set it and forget it deal.

Sad part is that there is no such thing as a "perfect" set up. If there was, the pros wouldnt need a suspension guy at the track with them to set theirs up from the time first practice starts till the time the first race starts. Every podium speech made you hear them saying "were going to make a few changes to the suspension and get back out there and win this next moto". Not saying that our (us amateurs) translation is the same as theirs but it puts things into perspective in towards the big picture of what you should expect your suspension to do. My suspension works great here but when I go down to SC for a few weeks over the summer to ride in the deep sand... it is FAR from ideal.

Just to stay on topic a little, I've ridden a few of the new KTMs including my buddies 13 250sxf and that thing is as plush as any bike I have ever ridden although it did bottom if I over jumped anything, and it is sprung and valved for a rider almost 40lbs lighter than myself. Same with the 2011s and 2012s that he previously had all with stock components other than springs, revalve, and oil level. I love the motor as well! (he's running the same pipe as you are Tye although he has the full system) IT IS BETTER than the stock pipe which I have also ridden with.

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While this thread is comical... I see why Tye is upset. Bad suspension can be very discouraging and he may feel like he has done everything he "can" do to them without going with kit suspension even though that will need work as well. I also see why the tuners on here are upset with Tye. I think they are telling you that you are going to be chasing your tail with the Ohlins stuff and will have the same issues because they will not be set up properly either to compensate for what you want out of them.

I don't believe that there are many suspension set ups out there that can not be made to work. I bought a basket case 96 yz and wanted to race it for fun at some of the smaller local events and use it as a practice bike. I contacted my suspension guy and asked on here and they both told me the same things. Get a revalve, upgrade the wear parts that they have avail in stock, one step stiffer springs than I would normally run and find someone to source me/ or make me some bottoming cones. Luckily my suspension guy is top notch and was willing to do all the B**** work for me. He made me some springs since none of his suppliers carried what I wanted and he cut me some cones on his cnc.

They are better than my 03 forks and on par with my 08 SSS forks, no doubt. I could not believe the transformation. Then again they were taken apart and put back together about 10 times by my tuner to get them perfect, but I had him at the track with me as well. I was confused when he said he wanted to watch me take the long straight about 10x before we went any further. When I told him that the bike felt like it was drifting from side to side when I was hard on the gas out of the corner he knew exactly what to do. I never would have told him that if he didn't make me ride that section because I thought my back end was just breaking loose. When in fact he told me that he could tell something was not right when I was at the apex of the corner and getting on the throttle, he said it was because the bike was trying to stand up on me while I was trying to lean it further. Then it was on to the sand whoops which required another setting change, then onto over jumping, and casing jump on purpose, all while coming back and telling him exactly what the bike "felt" like so he could adjust. It all comes down to translating what the suspension/ bike is currently doing and exactly what you want to be better. I could not come back and tell him "they are harsh" and expect him to have any clue where or how they were harsh. Dude brought his camcorder and watched me very very closely every weekend for about a month before we got it dialed in. Its not a set it and forget it deal.

Sad part is that there is no such thing as a "perfect" set up. If there was, the pros wouldn't need a suspension guy at the track with them to set theirs up from the time first practice starts till the time the first race starts. Every podium speech made you hear them saying "were going to make a few changes to the suspension and get back out there and win this next moto". Not saying that our (us amateurs) translation is the same as theirs but it puts things into perspective in toward the big picture of what you should expect your suspension to do. My suspension works great here but when I go down to SC for a few weeks over the summer to ride in the deep sand... it is FAR from ideal.

Just to stay on topic a little, I've ridden a few of the new KTM's including my buddies 13 250sxf and that thing is as plush as any bike I have ever ridden although it did bottom if I over jumped anything, and it is sprung and valved for a rider almost 40lbs lighter than myself. Same with the 2011s and 2012s that he previously had all with stock components other than springs, revalve, and oil level. I love the motor as well! (he's running the same pipe as you are Tye although he has the full system) IT IS BETTER than the stock pipe which I have also ridden with.

Excellent post. If Tye would LISTEN to anyone that posts suggestions, instead of just bitching and telling everyone that answers that they are wrong, we would help him.

But he apparently doesn't want help?

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Excellent post. If Tye would LISTEN to anyone that posts suggestions, instead of just bitching and telling everyone that answers that they are wrong, we would help him.

But he apparently doesn't want help?

Thanks...the post was a lot longer than anticipated but just thought it might add some perspective and maybe even convince Tye to take some of what has been said to heart. When I started asking around about my 96 that was bought as a project/fun build, I was very discouraged that the bike would remain unridable and would have been the breaking point for that bike because I would have had no use for it. Everyone told me that they didnt have the components I needed and that they didnt really know what settings worked and which didnt because its been so long since they have worked with them and no one had any data they would "share" to get me any closer. That is not what I was looking for which sounds to me what Tye is describing. His previous tuners were going for "OK" settings. I had to ask the right questions and get ahold of the right people to get what I was looking for. I wanted to do it myself as it wouldnt really be detrimental to a race or anything since it wasnt a race bike and I wanted to "learn" how my suspension actually worked. I called my normal tuner up and he said no problem, bring them down and you can watch me do the work. Called him up the next week with my issues after riding the bike and he said meet me at the track on these days. My suspension far exceeds what I wanted out of it. Moral of the story was that there is always someone out there that knows what to do with a specific set up... based on actual experience, not what they read in a book or what someone told them would work.

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The moral of the story is its not a road bike like what tye did before his stellar mx career, you will always get rough tracks and feed back through the bars/bike. Learn how to ride instead of bitching about the bikes suspension and downfalls all the time.

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I agree and disagree to what you write above.

I agree that many things can be straighten out if you give it time and have someone that can watch you ride and are willing to invest in that, and know what to look for.

What you are describing is a utopia for 95% of all riders, most riders does not have that luxury, including me. If you would have to pay for the time you and your friend invested, you would have seen that your suspension have costs maybe $10.000 or so.

The more expensive (good) suspension you buy, the higher chance that you dont have to touch anything to get a premium suspension setup. The cheaper suspension, the more time you have to invest (and money sometimes) to even get it to an acceptable level.

Like i did now on the last revalve, i changed just because i know that i got the same setup (settings and components) that some Swedish pros are using as well as KTM/WP Netherlands used in the last FIM races.

Now i bought Öhlins as well, because i know that Öhlins has copied the settings and material from AMA/FIM riders into 2013 equipment and that 2013 setup is known to be freaking awesome.

The chances i don't have to make any adjustments (except changing springs and some clicks) and it will run better then my now dialed in WP setup is very very high. This is the benefit of being somewhat of a quicker rider, the gap between pro setup and mine is small(er). For a rookie or beginner i understand it can be trickier.

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Maybe we should get to know Tye and see him ride so everybody meet Tye:

Edited by Kalashnikov
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I agree and disagree to what you write above.

I agree that many things can be straighten out if you give it time and have someone that can watch you ride and are willing to invest in that, and know what to look for.

What you are describing is a utopia for 95% of all riders, most riders does not have that luxury, including me. If you would have to pay for the time you and your friend invested, you would have seen that your suspension have costs maybe $10.000 or so.

The more expensive (good) suspension you buy, the higher chance that you dont have to touch anything to get a premium suspension setup. The cheaper suspension, the more time you have to invest (and money sometimes) to even get it to an acceptable level.

Like i did now on the last revalve, i changed just because i know that i got the same setup (settings and components) that some Swedish pros are using as well as KTM/WP Netherlands used in the last FIM races.

Now i bought Öhlins as well, because i know that Öhlins has copied the settings and material from AMA/FIM riders into 2013 equipment and that 2013 setup is known to be freaking awesome.

The chances i don't have to make any adjustments (except changing springs and some clicks) and it will run better then my now dialed in WP setup is very very high. This is the benefit of being somewhat of a quicker rider, the gap between pro setup and mine is small(er). For a rookie or beginner i understand it can be trickier.

Exactly my point... the OP is not an extremely quick rider. He is the beginner that you speak of. He thinks his stuff is harsh now. If indeed your getting the same parts and settings that the pros run (which I doubt) it will be even more harsh because he does not have the speed to work the suspension like it is designed to be worked for the extremely fast guys.

Im a rookie when it comes to tuning suspension but I will say without a doubt that kit suspension is not the answer for the "majority" of riders. Im pretty quick at times as well and I will say that while A kit suspension is less abusive over the course of a full day when properly set up, my stock stuff is pretty damn good in comparison. I am not fast enough to need anything more, same goes for the majority of riders.

And your wrong about the suspension tuners, at least here in the USA... there are plenty of tuners that go out to the track and even ride at tracks that will help you out with your suspension set ups. My guy hits up different tracks every weekend, and is always at the big races and he is a small company. I am sponsored by them but I have seen the dude completely rebuild the forks on an old (early 90s CR 125) at the track when he saw a kid pull his beat up bike out of the truck and got the story that the kid only wanted to race but didnt have any money for a newer bike or to get his remotely rideable, he did that all for free. He drives his box truck all over with all his tools and parts and does everything from track side clicker adjustments all the way to complete revalves. All the big name companies do track days, and are at the track on race days esp in the moto haven... also known as Cali. Tye could also probably get in a sponsorship program with all the publicity he would get the company which is all they care about... with his vids, time spent at the track, etc... not to mention after you pay for a revalve once your never pay again on the same suspension. Every tuner that I have dealt with will revalve again for free if you are not pleased with the results.

Edited by BDubb106

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Maybe we should get to know Tye and see him ride so everybody meet Tye:

!

This video, explains EVERYTHING!

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This video, explains EVERYTHING!

Yeah, Wow, if you are gonna complain about suspension that much, you gotta be fast. Dude, learn to twist the throttle first before bagging out suspension that hard.

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He needs an off road/enduro setting.

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Nobody has solid crank bearings, nobody has E Start. I mean those are two very important things for me because I'm racing the bike and when I crash during a race, I wanna be able to hit the magic button and get right back on the bike, not sit on the sidelines kicking whilst my competition passes me by.

It is A LOT easier to fix ONE THING; Suspension, then build a better motor!

Just to let you know, I've been building roadrace bikes for years. We start with a good motor/chassis and then put totally different suspension on it. This is "typical" for every type of motorcycle including motocross. The problem is, the average joe "assumes" the better components aren't worth the money. The problem is, if you wanna win races, you need a bike thats easier to ride then your competition. Thats when suspension comes in and the more plush you can get it, the easier it is on the body to ride.

Finally, I've ridden most of the Japanese contenders and honestly, the KTM is better out of the box. In fact, I've put the riders of those new Japanese bikes ON my KTM and they've been blown away. Its unbelievable when someone who's an anti-KTM person, gets to ride my bike and you see the smile on their face. Of course, they all bitch about the suspension, but again, thats the ONLY thing.

This is about the most bassackwards way of approaching a bike setup that I've ever heard.

You can make any motor do anything you want with some money thrown at it with almost guaranteed results. It doesn't need to be as "personalized".

If the chassis sucks, the bike is hopeless. If the suspension action sucks, it might be able to be fixed, but it's usually a mix of the components and the chassis.

Unfortunately, the KTM chassis still sucks, even if their suspension components are slightly improved.

What do you want the bike to handle/feel like? Start with that, then give the motor a thorough rebuild and blueprinting for reliability.

I've been gravitating towards the Hondas lately with a wandering eye for the Suzukis for this reason. Had a few KTM's and gave up on that relatively quickly for the same reasons you are stating. Yamahas are comfy and stable enough but they just don't corner. For my area of concern, which is mainly 2-strokes, the KTM's have only had a couple advantages - the brake rotor diameter (which is fixable, and the brake components weren't anything to write home about over a Honda spec Nissin unit), and the steel clutch baskets. All are easily modified/swapped on a Jap bike.

If you're worried about crashing during a race with a bike besides a KTM, get a Rekluse Core EXP and forget about the E-Start. The extra kicking will help build some leg strength so you can stand up and ride like a man.

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