Think i may have bought a stolen SX-f

[WWalker]

To 318bryan....it sounds like you might be okay. If that is true then what a relief.....

I've been following this thread and just today saw a DRZ frame for sale on CL in my area "with no paperwork".

http://slo.craigslist.org/mcy/3464798414.html

[318bryan]

Those bikes are pretty legit. That team had some good backing with some profiled names. It really depends if it was a practice bike or a race bike. Sometimes the practice bikes will be modded, but not as modded as the race bikes. I know this particular riders practice bike at least had some motor work among the other basics.

yeah and he was really cool when i met him, and seemed like a super legit guy, which is why i was having such a hard time beleiving that it was a hot bike, if anything i was maybe worried that something was up before he got it because i definitely couldnt see him being the type to steal a bike

[MX763]

all you people that keep saying that a bill of sale is all you need to not loose your dirt bike that you purchased if it comes back stolen or from a default loan then you are in for one more big a$$ suprise!!!

A bill of sale can be the difference of felony receiving stolen property or just losing the bike.

Edited January 3, 2013 by MX763

[William1]

A 'bill of sale' is barely worth the paper it is printed on. All motorcycles (in every single one of the 50 states) come with an MSO. No motor vehicle can be sold without one. A bill of sale, signed by the seller and then backed up with proof if identification is only good in court to prove you bought it in good faith, who the seller was and that you did not steal it. It does not mean it is not stolen or was illegally sold.

That MSO is supposed to be converted into a title in the state of the owner. People skip this to get out of paying sales tax. Not right but I can see it happening. Not having the MSO or a title means you do not have legal proof of ownership. You need to speak to the seller and find out where that is (the MSO or Title) and demand he produce it or buy the bike back from you.

[318bryan]

A 'bill of sale' is barely worth the paper it is printed on. All motorcycles (in every single one of the 50 states) come with an MSO. No motor vehicle can be sold without one. A bill of sale, signed by the seller and then backed up with proof if identification is only good in court to prove you bought it in good faith, who the seller was and that you did not steal it. It does not mean it is not stolen or was illegally sold.

That MSO is supposed to be converted into a title in the state of the owner. People skip this to get out of paying sales tax. Not right but I can see it happening. Not having the MSO or a title means you do not have legal proof of ownership. You need to speak to the seller and find out where that is (the MSO or Title) and demand he produce it or buy the bike back from you.

i would rather have the bike without a title than sell it back

[The_Vernsker]

. no there are still some letters visible, and the frame has been powdered orange so it is VERY clear that it was scraped off

after you powder-coat a frame you have to take a wire wheel on a power tool to expose the VIN... Is it possible someone got a little crazy and accidentally ground off part of the VIN also?

[William1]

i would rather have the bike without a title than sell it back

Then you do not care if the bike is stolen and you are also happy to deal with the police and legal system if the bike is ever checked. If the bike is 'borrowed' from you, you will have no way to prove you are the legal owner. Nor will you be in a position to report it to the police.

[GaSmoker81]

That MSO is supposed to be converted into a title in the state of the owner. People skip this to get out of paying sales tax. Not right but I can see it happening. Not having the MSO or a title means you do not have legal proof of ownership. You need to speak to the seller and find out where that is (the MSO or Title) and demand he produce it or buy the bike back from you.

You cannot do this in Georgia. I bought a bike new with MSO and bill of sale from dealer and DMV says they do not title or register dirt bikes bottom line. SO.......bill of sale is about the best you can do for dirt bikes/ATVs. 99% of the time (unless you buy from the original owner and he keeps up with the paperwork) you will not find a seller who still has the MSO. I've asked dozens of people while searching/buying bikes in Georgia and have not had one person say they still had the MSO.

[William1]

You cannot do this in Georgia. I bought a bike new with MSO and bill of sale from dealer and DMV says they do not title or register dirt bikes bottom line. SO.......bill of sale is about the best you can do for dirt bikes/ATVs. 99% of the time (unless you buy from the original owner and he keeps up with the paperwork) you will not find a seller who still has the MSO. I've asked dozens of people while searching/buying bikes in Georgia and have not had one person say they still had the MSO.

You got a MSO. That gets signed over to the next owner. You can still take it to DMV and get a title, an off road only title, no plates. They do give titles to transfer ownership. Not having either, you have no legal proof of ownership. Anyone can write up a 'bill of sale' to anyone else.

Based on your comment, I could write a 'bill of sale' and sell you bike and it would be legal!! I think you'd agree, the bill of sale was worthless and invalid. You need to look into this further. Most legit owners that do not have the MSO or title is because they lost it. They could get a replacement. Without it at time of purchase, you have no way of knowing you are legally buying the bike/machine. If there is a loan out, the finance company holds the MSO/title untill the lan is paid off. That is how they prove they have a lien. Some equipment that does not have a title has a UCC-1 however, that is a much more cumbersome document and is typically only used for machinery, ships and other non-motor vehicles.

[318bryan]

after you powder-coat a frame you have to take a wire wheel on a power tool to expose the VIN... Is it possible someone got a little crazy and accidentally ground off part of the VIN also?

i in an earlier post that thats exactly what i think happened

[Ringo25]

I dont think anyone mentioned this but you have to have a vin number to race national and regional races. If anything this bike had the vin scratched so its not traceable back to him for some reason. It might be a practice bike he used idk. All i can say is good luck to your situation. And btw i dont now about carolina but in colorado you do not have to have a title for a bike for proof of ownership. I have a couple of bikes with no titles but they have valid vin #'s though. Just depends on states i guess but as some were mentioning checking vin is key as there are sellers in my area who misrepresent their bikes saying they are newer or older than they really are. Sorry this happened.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Ringo25

[IBeInNC]

And btw i dont now about carolina but in colorado you do not have to have a title for a bike for proof of ownership. I have a couple of bikes with no titles but they have valid vin #'s though.

By valid VIN you mean the VIN is filed with your name? This can only be accomplished if the seller (or buyer) files the paper work with the appropriate departments. If you buy a bike from a dealership, then yes the dealer will "register the VIN" to your name. If you buy from a privite party most likely the VIN will not be filed to your name. This is why it is important to possess the the MSO or title. You could be the sixth owner of a bike not knowing that the third owner actually stole it from the second. Just something to think about.....

[GaSmoker81]

You got a MSO. That gets signed over to the next owner. You can still take it to DMV and get a title, an off road only title, no plates. They do give titles to transfer ownership. Not having either, you have no legal proof of ownership. Anyone can write up a 'bill of sale' to anyone else.

Based on your comment, I could write a 'bill of sale' and sell you bike and it would be legal!! I think you'd agree, the bill of sale was worthless and invalid. You need to look into this further. Most legit owners that do not have the MSO or title is because they lost it. They could get a replacement. Without it at time of purchase, you have no way of knowing you are legally buying the bike/machine. If there is a loan out, the finance company holds the MSO/title untill the lan is paid off. That is how they prove they have a lien. Some equipment that does not have a title has a UCC-1 however, that is a much more cumbersome document and is typically only used for machinery, ships and other non-motor vehicles.

I want a title for my yz250..believe me...so unless the people at the DMV/Tag&Title office don't know what they are talking about they said there was no way for me to get a title for a dirtbike.

I think its screwed up but thats how it is here.

Edited January 3, 2013 by GaDRZ400sMan

[STR8SHOOTR]

The last time I was in the market for a bikeI had to pass up bikes that I really wanted because they didnt have titles. Im not going to be that guy. It's better to pass it up and keep looking. I also passed up a bike with a title but it didnt match the guys ID. He said he never titled it to get by the Tax. He told me its signed by the previus owner and just to bring it down to MV and title it in my name. It probably would of worked but I didnt want to take that chance, I must of became an adult when I wasnt looking..

[William1]

You can get a title for a YZ250 (assuming you have a MSO or a title in another persons name, properly transfered) but it would be a

***** For Off Road Only*****

You will not be able to get plates with it. Some states, the ink is a different color from an 'On Road' title too to make it obvious to the DMV clerk who has a hard time reading. A title does not mean you can get plates. It only states you are the owner of record and that information has been recorded by the state. To get plates for a vehicle titled (or MSO'd) ,**** For Off Road Only***** you have to follow procedures as set forth in the state where you want plates. In some states, all you have to do is request it. In some states, it depends where in the state you live. In some states, it is downright impossible (or nearly so).

Having a title and getting plates (aka registration) is two different things.

[William1]

The last time I was in the market for a bikeI had to pass up bikes that I really wanted because they didnt have titles. Im not going to be that guy. It's better to pass it up and keep looking. I also passed up a bike with a title but it didnt match the guys ID. He said he never titled it to get by the Tax. He told me its signed by the previus owner and just to bring it down to MV and title it in my name. It probably would of worked but I didnt want to take that chance, I must of became an adult when I wasnt looking..

Very wise.

In some states (Cali for sure) a title in another persons name, not the sellers, can make you liable for a lot of fees and penalties. Always have the seller proivde a title in thier own name and then sign that over to you. Offer to take them to the DMV right then to help out. If they balk, there is a good reason.

I did buy one bike that the original owner never converted to thier own name( MSO) The bike was a 1974 and I got it in 1995. The guy was a friend of mine for over 30 years. However, had he lost the MSO, I would not of taken the bike. I have subsequently converted the title to a NJ one (then PA and now VA). A 1974 Yamaha MX 100.

[bowhunter007]

In the state of WA. operating any vehicle, without a VIN(proof of ownership, whatever) on public land, is almost as sketchy as getting caught with a firearm, with serial numbers filed off.

[rdlsz24]

You can get a title for a YZ250 (assuming you have a MSO or a title in another persons name, properly transfered) but it would be a

***** For Off Road Only*****

You will not be able to get plates with it. Some states, the ink is a different color from an 'On Road' title too to make it obvious to the DMV clerk who has a hard time reading. A title does not mean you can get plates. It only states you are the owner of record and that information has been recorded by the state. To get plates for a vehicle titled (or MSO'd) ,**** For Off Road Only***** you have to follow procedures as set forth in the state where you want plates. In some states, all you have to do is request it. In some states, it depends where in the state you live. In some states, it is downright impossible (or nearly so).

Having a title and getting plates (aka registration) is two different things.

Grdz400sman is right, not all states will issue titles, not even off road titles for dirt bikes or quads. I buy stuff all the time from Indiana and Wisconsin. Neither issue titles of any kind for off road vehicles. I take the bill of sale from the seller to the DMV here in Illinois and get issued a title for $55. I've done it probably 5 times

Rob

Edited January 4, 2013 by 02YZ85

[RickP]

40-3-4.

No certificate of title shall be obtained for:

(16) A vehicle which is not sold for the purpose of lawful highway use

http://www.inohvaa.o...ia.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Edited January 4, 2013 by EagleFreek

[Steve237]

Grdz400sman is right, not all states will issue titles, not even off road titles for dirt bikes or quads. I buy stuff all the time from Indiana and Wisconsin. Neither issue titles of any kind for off road vehicles. I take the bill of sale from the seller to the DMV here in Illinois and get issued a title for $55. I've done it probably 5 times

Rob

I live in Indiana and got a title for my WR250 from the BMV a few months ago. The bike is not street legal and I, of course, did not get plates for it.

From www.in.gov:

In Indiana, off-road vehicles (ORVs) that are less than five (5) model years old must be titled with the BMV. If you have recently purchased or received as a gift an ORV less than five (5) model years old, you must title it in your own name within thirty-one (31) days of purchase to avoid a delinquent title fee.

An ORV that is currently at least five (5) model years or older may be titled voluntarily.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Steve237