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About WRF-Rowdy

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    WR450F 2012, comp. kit

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  1. WRF-Rowdy

    WRF'2012 running out of idle speed

    No need for a pert response. I was just inquiring where you got that "reset" procedure from, (especially as 2012 WR-Fs do not have a cooling fan).
  2. WRF-Rowdy

    WRF'2012 running out of idle speed

    thx for your fast response! I'll try but I doubt the engine fire fire up cold w/o pulling the "choke" (fast idle) knob, even with kickstarting. And it will be interesting to see if 6 min. of prolonged idle will trigger the garage's CO alarm. Btw, where does that "reset the ecu" saga come from? Sounds a bit like snake oil to me. regarding the starter: it's brand new, installed a couple days ago. So definitely no worn out commutator. regarding the ticking noise: does valve clearance increase with engine temp?
  3. Today when stopped at a traffic light I decided that the idle speed were a tad low so I rached for the knob, only to find out that I've maxxed out the idle speed knob's adjustment range! How can that be? With FCR carbs one could easily turn idle up to crazy +3000 rpms. I recall that turning up idle speed on my EFI WR-F would easily allow me to reach a deafening 2500 rpms. What is wrong when an otherwise perfectly running bike idles at only ~1400 with the idle adjuster maxxed out? The other things odd after my 2018 bike vacation is a very noticeable ticking/klicking noise, synchronous with engine rpm, comming from the engine as soon as engine is warmed upd (valve clearance?), and no E-start when cold (in neutral) and a rather unrelibale E-start when warmed up. Mind you a year ago the bike would always E-start in gear, even when cold. I'm planning to do the swiss cheese mod to the clutch hub to reenable in-gear e-starts, but am wondering if there might be something else off, given that I've to be at max idle speed setting to keep her running. I definitely need some advice from you guys thx in advance Rowdy
  4. WRF-Rowdy

    Starter motor commutator wear

    My Wr450f 2012 started acting up during this year's vacation to Italy. Group of buddies couldn't help but casually comment on me kicking it. Got me a Bosch Charger in Italy. Installed the freshly bought LiPO battery, charged the lead battery, all futile. Back home I got me a replacement starter and had it on the desk for weeks, before I eventually managed to install it today. 1. You'll want to take off header and muffler, or you'll break your fingers 2. the starter is held in place by only to screws, accessible from the right. (don't forget to disconnect the battery first) 3. starter pops out towards the right side with a little umm.. pressure from the left. 4. old starter makes a scary grinding, grumbling noise when attached to 12V, new one would go wheeeee wheeeee like friction hasn't been invented yet. 5. greased the sealing o-ring and installed the new starter 6. instant push button only (e.g. no fooling around with throttle cracking) starting ist back again, yipee! Lesson learned: the fact that my WR450F'03 starter lasted more then a decade w/o any glitch, doesn't prevent a 2012 starter to technically die within +5 years. even with the finest idle mixture set, a WR won't fire up with a dying starter.
  5. WRF-Rowdy

    2012 starter performance degrades gradually

    It IS noisy, it kind of moans, sounds like it takes almost one sec per 4 strokes. It assume one cannot change that rear end "bearing", the starter is shot when that bearing developed slack. I'll tear it out and have a look at the starter and the cables and will report what I found.
  6. WRF-Rowdy

    2012 starter performance degrades gradually

    So what you are saying is that the starter motor per se is not considered to have a limited life span. Them magnets dont'get old, collector and brushes and bearings easily live +6 years or longer. Basic maintenance, or lack thereof, might have caused my electricity to end up in bad/correded contracts/cables et.al. Typically no need to order a new motor, only check and maybe replace correded wiring, correct?
  7. My 2012 starter is turning over the engine at an ever decreasing speed: Facts: - engine is warmed up - fires up at laziest first kick - freshly charged battery or brand new chared LIPO battery: same result. At the beginning of last week (start of an off road vacation) it would rev well enough to light up the engine. With every day it seemed to turn over the engine at a lower speed. Last couple of days it became kick start only. Purchsead a BOSCH charger (adjustable from 0.8A till a whopping 3.4A) and charged both the stock battery and the brand new LIPO (shido something). No change. What is the groups verdict regarding a 6 year old WR450F starter motor? Or is the starter relay developing resistance? Should I get a new stock starter? Or should I replace the brushes only? Should I get one of them Arrow-aftermarket things? TIA
  8. WRF-Rowdy

    Yamaha FI Diagnostic tool - WR450 specific

    CO should range from -30 till +30 if I recall correctly. So when your bike stalls as far apart as -29 and +27 you are doing that with too high a rpm value. At 1500 it'll run with all possible values. Retry that procedure with "barely idling" idle speed, lets say 1200 (or 1250). That way it should idle within a much narrower CO range. That makes finding the sweet spot easier. You math is correct! But you should iterate the process: -1 is your new base CO value. Warm up the engine and try to lower the idle speed as much as possible. (could be that for startup at "super low adjustment idle" you'll need a slightly opened trottle) With the idle speed trimmed down to "just running, usuable for riding" search again for top and bottom CO value as you did before. Note down the values and calculate the arithmetic mean, exactly as you did! If you end up at around -1 again you are done. Turn up idle and enjoy a perfectly starting bike. If you end up at say -12 that's the new base CO. Repeat the process until you cannot lower idle speed anymore. You then have found the CO value giving you the one perfect mixture, that has your bike idle at ridiculously low an idle knob setting. Set idle speed back up to usabe and be done.
  9. Yikes! Thx for the warning. What a strange direction to develop an off road bike. I very vividly remember the bright grin on my face caused by that beautiful torque increase of my WR450F'03 compared to the WR400F (with YZ timing) , see pic. I don't want to give up that nice hump between 3000 and 7000 rpms. Does "16' onwards" include the 18' model, too? Or are 18' using a totally different engine?
  10. Correct, slightly below 2000 for woods work. But this pic was taken by me proving that even with the CO set to scaringly low -25 the bike was still idling RICH (as can be seen from the readout of the O² sensor, being above 0.4 Volts) When I added another single step towards -26 CO setting, the O² sensor sharply dropped its output voltage to 0.08 Volts (which indicates lean). So -25 is "stoichiometrically" perfect mixture (1:14 air to fuel ratio) for my bike, my fuel and my head/muffler/cam combo. A couple of steps towards "rich", e.g. maybe -20 or -16 might be the mixture with max. power (=> slightly higher idle) but less "green", the one hard to start bikes would need. But the real reason for advocating the use of the FI tool on the running engine is that people w/o euro-header pipe (the one with O2 sensor) can tip toe towards perfect idle mixture by watching the idle speed change:. At my speed as in the pic, e.g. 1769 rpms I could lower the idle speed setting using the idle speed knob on the "carb" to an even lower speed, like say 1600. Then I could venture upwards toward, say CO of -20 and closely watch the idle speed change or until the engine stalls. Back to the previous CO setting of -25, kick engine into running, and now one would feel downwards to CO -30, closely monitoring idle speed changes. With that process one can locate the very CO settings value where the engine runs at say 1600 rpms with the lowest idle speed KNOB setting. THAT is the CO setting at which the user's current combination of airfilter, altitude, cams, header pipe, (aftermarket-) muffler and fuel type produce maximum power. (that is why this 1600 rpms idle needs the lowest idle speed setting).. The most important secret is to totally abandon any interpretation into this "optimal" CO number. -25 can be rich (as in my case), maybe there are enviroments/bikes where +5 is lean, we don't know and we don't care. What is certain though is the CO=0 is not perfect mixture. Whaterver CO setting (FI tool) lets the bike idle with the lowest idle speed setting (carb knob) is the one you want. Once people have found that CO setting they should turn idle speed to 1900 rpms again - exactly as you suggested - and can enjoy single button stab e-starts, in gear, hot oe cold ever after.
  11. Speaking of model years. What changed most notably between 2012-2015 and 2016 onwards (besides rotated engine) ? What could be a reason to prefer/avoid 2012-2015 compared to a similary used 2016ff model?
  12. Great filing job, basket fingers look smooth like railroad tracks!
  13. Yepp. BTW you should do this with the engine running. Then you notice a nice, digital real time rpm readout, right above to CO number line, 1769 rpms im my attached pic. That way you can "see" if idle degrades in the direction you change CO. Almost like listening to an engine, while truning the good-ol' mixture screw.
  14. WRF-Rowdy

    Add a neutral light to your WR

    ignore that post, Krannie answered already, I've overlooked the page two. Is that only me or does TT take up excessively much screen real estate, on my 32" monitor? I'd prefer a "dense" usenet-like reading option. My take is, since the inception of the WR400F that neutral switch help preventing engine damage from going WFO while in neutral. I'd presume being in neutral lowers the revv limiter's trigger rpms noticeably, however, I didn't test for that. I have never disconnected the neutral switch,neither on my XT600, TT600R or no any of my WRFs. But I did disable every side stand kill switch I came across, they can introduce mud/water triggered failures that are hard to pin down.
  15. hi Rowdy, thanx for excellent posts. i saw u had ecu 1DX0 on ur wr450f. can u tell me if this is programmable, or i need the gytr comp ecu 1DX7. thanks a lot, Ferenc

    1. Show previous comments  2 more
    2. WRF-Rowdy


      Glad to hear I could've been of some help! You now seem to have to best resources to answer future questions regarding different WR450F EFI ECUs: You've got the official, non-programmable, closed-loop lambda regulated "street legal" ECU, the programmable racing kit ECU (the one I'm using) , AND the super duper GYTR competition ECU, I envy your testing options!
      And I'm very happy to hear that you ended up with a very low CO setting for perfect mixture, controlled via lambda-sensor reading. Kudos to you to be able to measure the lambda sensor. Most people have no idea what to do with it.  And exactly as you did I moved up a tick towards rich from the perfect mixture setting, hoping that occassional medium warm starts would benefit from a slightyl richer idle.
      Speaking of that mysterious resistor that presumably(!) either disables closed-loop O²mode or makes the ECU programmable, it should be item 29 in the attached wiring diagram, located right under the seat, above the rear fender.


    3. WRF-Rowdy


      I hereby correct myself: The Competition Kit Manual lists many parts as being included, but no new, different ECU. So that "adaptor" that goes into Pos 29 is the only thing that turns a street legal ECU into the Competition ECU.
      My current view is that there is only one ECU besides the GYTR one. All EFI WRs are shipped with this ECU, which changes personality (e.g. enables programming) upon sensing the "competition" adapter. Said adapter is the only part NOT stating a YAMAHA part number, but has "not to be sold"  written in the remarks section of the table of contents.

    4. Ferenc Tolnai

      Ferenc Tolnai

      I got now the power tuner, and I can read/write this 1DX0 ECU as you do. I sent back the gytr comp one unopened. These manuals are quite good but they don't explain whats behind the scene which leave room for error and misinterpretation sometimes.

      I like your labeled electrical diagram! Can u post it in a bigger/ full size version?