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Chuck.

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Chuck. last won the day on November 23 2010

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About Chuck.

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Washington
  • Interests
    DIY guy w/ a plated Honda CRF250X and a Honda-Montesa 315R.

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  1. Chuck.

    Trail Tech Vapor Settings?

    I had to use 6 turns on XR plug wire to get a good signal, so try another two wraps and see if that helps. The setting in the Vapor controls how the tach signal is displayed and should match how the bike's ignition system works. Honda off road singles with a sensor on the crank run wasted spark and spark every revolution like a 2T. The sensor is inside the copper tube where the sensor wire enters. Others have removed the ring and expoxy the sensor in a drilled hole in the head or wedged it between cylinder fins. On one recent post it was installed deep between fins on the rear of the cylinder head. I have a vapor on my XR200R, which is similar to the CRF150/230 and I had to ream the ring because it was too tight on the plug threads, I also had to bend the the little sensor tube for better fin clearance. All in all a PITA to change the plug and I've considered other locations but the plug location does provide the best sensing.
  2. Chuck.

    Trail Tech Vapor Settings?

    The tach connection really does affect the stability of the RPM readings so how did you connect the tach wires? Setting should be 1 because the ignition is wasted spark and fires every revolution.
  3. Chuck.

    TrailTech Vapor question

    Good idea for a temp probe location. There is no zinc in modern oils designed for use with catalytic converters so a limited supply. The zinc and other additives can provide boundary lube to protect cams and flat tappet followers but engines are designed for the oils available at the time of design, and the newer synthetics are far better the the old dino oils available when our XRs were designed. I use Motul 300V and Redline because I have a high lift cam in my XR and the Megacycle was very specific on what oils and assembly lube to use. I prefer the clutch action and shifting of the Redline oil. Also our XRs have a wet clutch which further reduces oil options. Just to stir the pot some here is an interesting but long read on boundary lube and tests of over 100 lube oils, and the best do not have zinc! https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
  4. Chuck.

    XR250 New Owner Questions

    The manual recommendation is probably to avoid a jet change. You don't need to go too lean for 5000 ft. As previously posted stock is 132/45. I have not owned the 96+ XR250s but they use the same PD carb as earlier XR250s and XL250s. My experience is up to 5000 feet turning in the mixture screw will get your thru a ride, sometimes on a hot above 5k I'll drop the needle one clip. With your base at 5k you could rejet and then use the mixture screw if you encounter problems on a 7k + ride on a hot day. Here are two pictures from a Honda service manual showing jetting corrections for altitude and temperature: Apply the correction factors to stock jetting, last pic is the instructions. The first chart are main jet corrections, the second for the pilot. The main jet correction factor for 5k is about .96, or about a 125 main. The pilot correction is about .9 or about a 40. The pilot has a big influence on starting and I often need to use a larger pilot to make stating easier, the mixture screw setting for best idle will be a better indicator of pilot jet size than the chart. Your owners manual should have info on the setting but for other XRs less than one turn out indicates a rich pilot and more than 2 out indicates a lean pilot.
  5. Chuck.

    Trail Tech Vapor Settings?

    I also use GPS on my rides and when I compared distances they were very close, so I quit comparing. But a GPS track could be another way to validate, or adjust, the Vapor setting. But for GPS distance accuracy you need to remove all of the extraneous points generated while the bike is not moving because they add distance to the track. All of the above measuring and calculating is interesting for knowledge and does show the difference between tires, while accuracy is nice close is all I need. 1% is; 52.8 feet in one mile (about 2 1/2 car lengths), or about 22mm in rolling circumference. If I do a 100 mile ride on trails how do I know, or care, that my odo is off by 1 mile (1%).
  6. Chuck.

    Trail Tech Vapor Settings?

    The Vapor manual has instructions for measuring the rolling circumference of front tires. The difference between 2159 and 2179 is less than 1% so is probably closer than a lot cars with non electronic car odometers. I measure rolling circumference a bit differently to improve accuracy by using the lowest TP I will use to compensate for measuring on a hard surface, with my weight on the bike, and for two revolutions. To improve accuracy I use the tire stem or rim lock as an indicator and a carpenters square to insure the indicator is vertical from the axle at the start and end. I also use two revolutions. But you know what? My results are close to yours. Michelin S-12 90/90x21 on XR (loaded rolling circumference): 2076mm Michelin M12 90/90x21 on XR (loaded rolling circumference): 2070mm Michelin 2.75x21 Trials on XR (loaded rolling circumference: 2070mm Metzler 2E 3.00 x 21 (loaded rolling circumference: 2083mm
  7. Chuck.

    XR200 year differences engine

    Lots of question, hope I catch all of them. Most of the following are from my notes: Left Main Shaft bearing: 86 XR200 and earlier part number is 96100-60060-00 and is a standard 6006 bearing (30x55x13), the 87-02 part number is 91005-965-681 and is only 11mm wide. A standard 6006 bearing is 13mm wide but a local bearing house had a 16006 bearing that is 9mm wide. Its dynamic and static max load rating is about 70% and 65% respectively of the 6006, I suspect the Honda version at 11mm wide is in between. I have a 86 TLR200 case and that bearing is 13mm wide. So Honda changed the bearing in 87, probably because of the different kicker gears in 87, but Honda continued using 6006 in the part description. Right Counter Shaft bearing: Not available from Honda for the XR200s because it is part of the right case, however: 86 TLR200 marked NTN #NK15/16R (15x21x12); is a shell type (rolled cup) needle bearing. Probably the same as on earlier XRs, ATCs, etc. Available from Honda as a part on the 1974-1982 Honda CR125. https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/856650-xr200r-main-shaft-bearing/?tab=comments#comment-8905354 Also available from local bearing suppliers. 86+XR200R 15x23x12, is a ground race needle bearing. Available from local bearing suppliers. Standard shell type ( rolled cup) bearings are available from local bearing suppliers in 15x21x12, 15x21x16, and 15x21x22. 1986: Kick starter lever and shaft upgraded with new shift spindle & lever. However early levers can be used by drill/tap for the larger bolt, and early shafts modded by grinding clearance for larger bolt. Counter shaft longer to move counter shaft sprocket outboard by 5mm (about 0.2”). Big electrical change with connectors instead of bullet connectors, more compact components, and new stator/cover and rotor. Rotor is slightly heaver and will provide a smoother idle on early engines, alternator out put is higher. I converted an 82 engine to a total system from a 90 bike so I could plate it and run brighter lights; all just bolts on. 1987: upgraded kick starter gears from 30/28/19 teeth to 21/19/14 teeth, jetting change. I've converted early trannies to late kicker gears by clearancing the case and using the thinner right mainshaft bearing. I don't see the need for the late gears if you use proper 4T starting technique and the compression release is present and adjusted correctly. However with 218cc and 11:1 CR I wanted the extra margin of strength. 12000-427-305 heads, compared to others, have a wider head mount at 42mm; the extra width is on the left side. Other heads have a 36mm wide head mount boss. 36mm boss are on 81-83 XR200R, 83-84 XL200R, 83-84 XR200, and 86-02 XR200R heads. I hope I covered everything. Changes that affect fit and function are; crank right bearing and right case, counter shaft right bearing and right case, main shaft right bearing width, kicker gears and right case, kicker shaft and lever, counter shaft length, cylinder head mount width, oil pump, main shaft & 1st gear ratio, and electrical systems/alternators. XL 5 speed cases and gear set are supposedly not compatible with the XR185/200. CRF230F is the next gen XR185/200 and will bolt into a 86+ XR200R chassis except the engine is a bit taller so needs custom head mount plates.
  8. Yes, OEM paper manuals for most every bike I have bought or worked on, plus Clymers for some. Because most of my bikes are older I've found ebay to be a good source for used OEM service manuals. The Owners Manual for my CRF250X is almost 200 pages of very good info on maintenance and bike setup.
  9. My riding bud has a Honda-Montesa 4RT, a 250cc 4 valve motor with no battery EFI, and it has fantastic throttle response. I have a CRF250X that also provides great throttle response with its 3D ignition system and FCR carb. I've owned a few XRs and they didn't have that kind of throttle response, which was OK. I also have a late XR200R with a very modded engine and chassis that is my fav bike for gnarly ST because of its light weight, agile handling, and power. However its high compression ratio and mechanical spark advance does create some problems, and some of the engine mods have created jetting issues. As a result I've done research on converting to digital 3D ignition and EFI. The latest Microsquirt code can use the MAP to determine different parts of the engine cycle rather than a cam sensor. It can also sample the MAP at certain positions to better obtain good engine load info. (Single cylinder 4Ts and multis with individual throttle bodies have wildly swinging MAP values during each engine cycle which is why most singles use a TPS to determine engine load. It can also provide a trigger signal to a CDI module, however if you want the spark lead in the Microsquirt you will need to use a XR200R CDI module because it does not have ignition advance like your XR250R module. However the microsquirt can not use a Honda crank sensor nor work with two tooth flywheels. Part throttle doesn't allow as much air to enter the engine resulting in less compression pressure and a slower burning mixture. Adding in extra spark lead provides a better pressure rise curve and results in improved engine efficiency, better throttle response, and less heat out the exhaust. Most of the 4Ts with a FCR carb have a TPS and 3D ignition. On my CRF250X I disconnect the TPS when riding on low traction surfaces because that softens throttle response. Lots of EFI reading material on TT and other forums. DRZ400 EFI: https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1247175-fuel-injected-drz/ Good DR350 thread: https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/730295-90-dr350s-fuel-injection-conversion/
  10. Chuck.

    Brake/taillight

    Yes. I have two on my X; stock unit replaced with tail/brake combo, and one on the license plate holder. But you do need to be careful on wiring because the ECU controls the ground wire for the taillight on newer Xs, and on early Xs because of the higher current draw of the optional fan it controls the ground wire for a small DC relay. This is so the DC power is off when the engine is not running, the problem is the ECU cannot handle much current which is why the early Xs used a relay. If you will also have other DC loads I suggest protecting the ECU by using a relay like the earlier Xs to control the DC. The Main Relay in this diagram controls the DC power for the tail light and optional fan and the ECU controls the ground wire of the relay. On later Xs the tail light ground wire goes directly to the ECU.
  11. Chuck.

    XR400R LED headlight conversion

    Another option is a LED bulb to fit your reflector. This one comes with adapters. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Headlight-Hi-Lo-beam-LED-Bulb-Universal-with-H4-H6-BA20D-H6M-Adapter/121626224540?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Different types of bulbs produce different amount of light per watt of power used, unfortunately most sellers rate their lights not in lumens produced or watts consumed, but in equivalent incandescent watts. From this list you can see that LED produce 5+ times as much light as an incandescent bulb per watt consumed. Incandescent bulbs produce 16-20 lumens per watt, Halogen bulbs produce about 28 lumens/watt, HID about 80 lumens/watt, LED about 100 lumens/watt (some 130/w).
  12. Chuck.

    TrailTech Vapor question

    That's a very good observation, syn may have been around for a long time but Honda designed the XRs for the oils commonly available in the day. Since then oils have improved a lot and as my riding partner use to say: "The best is barely adequate for your avocation". As a side note the 84-85 RFVC engines had lube failures from overheating in the CA and Mexico deserts. I've used XRs since the early 80s and I've also bought a few basket cases that showed a lack of reasonable maintenance. As a result I try to use the best oils and do frequent oil changes.
  13. Chuck.

    Air Intake-Jetting-Pipe

    Yes on the aftermarket fuel screw because the engine does not have a thermostat to regulate temp and you will be changing the mixture screw +/- 1/4 turn during a ride to compensate for engine and ambient temperatures. My mods for tight trail riding are; 1" diameter holes in the top of the air box rather than cutting on the molded lines, stock exhaust, JD Jetting, careful adjustments of the AP squirt, and heaviest Steahly flywheel. The carb is used by other 4Ts so lots of info on adjusting for optimum running, and when right they are almost like EFI. My X is an 05 that I bought in 14 and by then the carb needed a lot of work including the AP diaphram, new slide seal, new float/needle, carb body gaskets, float level adjustment, and AP squirt adjustment. There are other things but those are the biggies and now my X will run tight gnarly almost as good as my very modded XR, and then rip better when you can open the throttle. I've tried a R header and a Yosh muffler but went back to stock for bottom end power more suited to my riding terrain.
  14. Chuck.

    TrailTech Vapor question

    There is a large amount of data on cylinder head temps for air cooled airplane engines, but I've found the light loads when trail riding permit higher temps. From dyno runs I know bad things begin to happen above 400F but that is full throttle. Trail riding XRs in the mountains I have observed 420F and no problems, but engine speeds and loads were low because of the terrain. Because air cooled engines can run much hotter than water cooled I've always felt the using good oil was important, and pure synthetics are the best. Oil selection can be difficult because XRs share engine oil with the tranny/clutch so oil selection needs to be wet clutch compatible, and resit shear break down from the gears. Shear breakdown will result in shifting becoming notchy or difficult. The old Rotella seemed longer lasting than other oils but the current Rotella has a changed formula that I've not tested. I run Motul 300V and Redline Motorcycle in my XRs, a bit pricey but they can be ordered online. The old Rotella was good for about 6 hours before shifting became notchy, the Motul longer, and the Redline more than 12 hours. Have said that it was oversight on my part that allowed 12 hours with the Redline. I also run a XRsOnly oil temp dipstick and the oil seems to run fairly cool (in the low 200F range) while cylinder head temps will run above 300F. All of the above cylinder head temps were with the probe under the spark plug washer.
  15. Chuck.

    TrailTech Vapor question

    As above anywhere on the black wire. I've used 5-6 wraps and then several tight layers of vinyl electrical tape to keep it all neat. A spark plug temp probe would be a PITA with the deep plug well on the RFVC head, the good news is a XR doesn't need many plug changes. The problem with using a head bolt is it is further away from the combustion chamber than the spark plug so response will be slower and the readings will be lower. That's OK, just don't try to compare the temps to those measured under the spark plug. Those easy to reach bolts on the top of the engine hold the cover on the head, the head bolts are under the cover.
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