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About moshman

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  1. Same problem for me, too harsh. I run 150-154psi for 240lb rider. Clickers are all the way out, made a big difference. If I go lower than 150psi then it seems to go stiffer.
  2. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    I went with 170 main, 48 pilot, and #6 slide because I understand the 125s run leaner than the 250s. I also had a bunch of needles and went with the richest, Ill post the PN when I look at my notes again. I used vermeer calipers to manage a healthy guess. I think that I need a 2002 reed/intake boot for the 38mm Keihin, the 2003 and beyond bolt pattern is different. Right now I have a rubber pipe joint with hose clamps.
  3. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    J, I have the 2001 which came with a 35/36 mm carb and therefore the intake boot is too small. 2002 had the 38mm mikuni and 2003 and above changed the boot all together. I think I can order a 2002 or 98,99 boot. I am struggling to find a reference for the 38mm Keihin on a 125. I am seeing either 36mm or Mikuni's on other brands. You have a Keihin 38 on your KX125 correct. Did you settle on the 170 main, 45 pilot and #7 slide? Do you recall which needle you ended up with?
  4. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    I decided to install the Keihin carb versus go back to the stock Mikuni 36mm. I have an old Keihin PWK 38mm, not the air striker version. It is 15mm wider but I can still cram it in there. Lowes and home depot sell rubber pipe joints with hose clamps, works perfect for connecting the larger carb to the boot. I am trying to figure out the base jetting to start with. How does this look? 170 main 45 pilot Needle? #7 slide ( I also have a #6)
  5. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    Ok folks, its confirmed, my off idle bogg problem is completely gone now. Please refer to all of the rambling in my previous posts. This is how the bike was ridden/tested and how it currently sits now.... Installed a used Ebay 2005 kx125 power valve governor assembly - the drive gear was slightly larger in diameter than my OEM 2001 causing binding. I easily swapped the 05 gear for the 01 and no more binding. The cup and ramp on the 05 are different angles and smaller etc. but do not influence the actual installation, only how the power valve comes on with RPM. The governor on the 01 and 02 models only, have dual springs making the valve open later. The single spring on all other year models appears to have the same part number. Carb - I still have a 38mm Lectron (5-1 rod) temporarily installed as I thought it was carb related. I will go back to stock Mikuni and then most likely to a Keihin 38mm that I already have. I also put the optional OEM heavier flywheel on it, the reeds appear to be stock, the cylinder was recently bored to 132 and nikosil'ed. I use a BR8ES plug with pump gas running 50:1 Motul 800. FmF fatty. Once again the symptons were a very flat, non-pipey, linear RPM build from idle to mid throttle, then the pipe would come on and it would act fine. If I wicked the throttle open quickly the bike would bogg, stall until I brought the throttle back. I could keep it pipey if I never returned back to low RPMs, turns out, I was keeping the power valve governer engaged and not letting it return to its resting state. The oil spooge was horrific but it didnt foul plugs. I am 250 lbs so keep that in mind but the bike is 100% better now. Its pipey from idle to top no matter how slow or fast I work the throttle. My kid is going to sh_t himself when he yanks the throttle now. Regarding the governor power valve tie rod length, it appears that it should be 1/16 inch longer so that it would give a better operating range, pre-loading the tension on the governor spring seems a bit too much and only a slightly longer rod would reduce it. I believe this is due to the age and wear of the bike/engine etc. I may play with this later but it is no longer a priority for me. I will report back if I end up lengthening the rod. My advice - if you have an 01 or 02 KX125, immediately remove the inner spring on the governor and/or replace with a different assembly. If your bike is old and has been heavily used, have a look at the ball bearing wear on the power valve governor. Dremel grind the bearing detentes out of the ramp and cup or simply replace with new. You may not have a bogg but you will see much quicker low end response. I conclude that the second spring, different geometry and ball bearing wear made my bike almost worthless.
  6. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    Update, what a complete azz beating. I have had the side cover on and off 10 times. Each time the gears where binding after I tightened everything up. Here are a few tips: The plastic retainer/spacer inside the kicker spring has a notch for the spring, it must be aligned perfectly so that it will push all the way down. It may get moved when you move the spring or kicker with the cover off. The side case/cover pushes the plastic spacer down when you install it otherwise it wont go all the way down. If you push the shift lever and or shaft inwards it will push the pinwheel gear out of place and you will have to move the gears to push it back into place. you can put the cover all the way on before you realize that this is an issue. Make sure the pinwheel and gear changer shaft are pushed all the way into the engine from behind the clutch. This is a real pissr, there is a hole behind the clutch that exposes the transmission gears. When I pulled the side case cover off, I left some of the bolts loose, one of those fuggn bolts fell behind the clutch and into the damn transmission. I laughed and didnt think that that actually happened because I didnt see it, I only heard it. Sure enough, when turning the gears, they locked up. I ended up having to pull the engine out of the frame and rotating it several times, luckily the fugn bolt fell out. Whew. Next up, the gears were binding after I tightened the cover down. As it turns out the governor gear wheel looks to be 1/32 bigger in diameter than the original 2001. I traded the 05 gear for the 01 and viola, no more binding. The damn kawi pn's are the same!!! Now, dont laugh too hard but I get it all back together finally and now......the gear shifter is stuck!!!!!! yep, I smashed every green item in my garage, then I cried, laughed hysterically and finally got drunk. I have been working on my own bikes for 30 years. Honda rules btw. So, today I ordered a new case gasket as I reused that one at least 10 times and it looks like my favorite 40 year old ac/dc t-shirt, all tattered and full of holes. Now this is serious, but I read that the oil drain plug can come in contact with the shift drum so maybe that is it. Most likely I got the pinwheel gear and shifter shaft mechanism messed up. Lastly, the 2001 and 2005 power valve governor parts have the same kawi PNs, however it is clear that they are different. The cone/cup are smaller on the 05, the ball bearing ramp is angled on the 05, versus flat on the 01, and the spring feels stiffer on the 05 vs the 01. Luckily the shaft is the same diameter and length. At this point I am going to assume that the 05 ramp and cup are smaller and therefore will have a shorter window of operation on the valve. I really don't care as long as my off-idle bogg goes away. I will be going back to the OEM mikuni and stock jets etc to get a baseline. Once I get it running decent, I will then install the spare 38mm Keihin that I have, however I have to find the right reed intake boot. I think a 2000 or 2002 has a 38mm, will start there. God, i sure hope this helps someone else someday. All I hear from my kid is "is it done yet Dad, whats the hold-up?" Edit: I just realized that the power valve governor that I bought used off of ebay might have been advertised incorrectly as an 05 KX125. It may have been from the KX250. The gear wheel diameter of my ebay replacement was larger and caused binding. The kawi pn's for the gear wheel are the same from 05 to 99, however the pn's for the KX250 governor are all the same as the KX125 - EXCEPT for the gear wheel, it is different. Also, the governor that I received did not appear to be as worn as mine, it had no ball bearing detentes on either the ramp or cup. I am convinced that my governor was very worn, both the second spring and the detentes are causing most of my bogg problem.
  7. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    To summarize my theory: Replace the 2001 or 2002 governor with an 03-05 as kawi used a single spring version for every year outside of 01 and 02. Alternatively, remove the inner spring of the 01 and 02 governor, the outer spring pn is the same that it used for other years. Maybe a brad-spanking new, perfectly jetted KX125 can handle the extra tension of the second spring but both 01 and 02 are known for being dogs, perhaps this is the reason. Kawi went back to a single spring for 03-05. Pull the governor apart and dremmel the ball bearing wear detentes on both the cup and the ramp to reduce the initial resistance to movement. I suspect that the bike power comes on very fast when the ball moves out of the detente. My bog my be caused by the bearing being "stuck" in this detente during initial acceleration. Lengthen the linkage tie rod to put the timing in a better operating range. If the gap is too large, the governor wont move the arm until a higher RPM and the valve will not open to its maximum position at high RPM. I believe that I am only getting half of the range of motion that it is capable of due to parts wear and a non-adjustable linkage tie rod. I will manually move the power valve gear to its fully-retracted position (high rpm), I will pull the tie rod up with needle nose pliers and measure the gap, then I will rig something that will cut that distance in half so I can test it. If it helps, I will weld a extension on the arm. The symptoms are horrifying spooge and zero off idle acceleration and power. I rebuilt the clutch with stiffer springs, I flipped the retainer plate holding the the reeds to the cage, high to low. I changed the Mikuni jets dozens of times, changed to a Honda needle, rigged a Lectron carb, adjusted float level, replaced slide, changed to hotter plug, triple checked timing and all electrical connections, added octane booster, re-built the top end - bored to 132 and re-plated, changed from a PC to FMF pipe, and changed sprockets for a lower gear ratio. None of this impacted the off idle performance for the better. It has always been flat and unresponsive until 1/2 throttle. Its as if the engine has to "catch up" to the throttle position. Wicking the throttle gives a dead lean bog. Sorry for the novel, but this has been dogging me for a couple years, this is my boys bike, he doesn't know the difference, and we trail ride. Hope it helps someone else. Another part of my problem is that I have no reference point. I bought this bike used so I dont know how it felt when it was brand new. I just know it sucks now. The picture on the top is a 01/02 governor, look closely and you can see an inner spring. The large spacer on top of the outer spring is hollow. It is just a washer with sides to contain the spring. Other year models just have a standard washer. The yamaha folks add washers in the middle which increases spring pre-load, causing the valve to open slower and later. The bottom is a 2003-05 governor. I would suspect that all of the older used bikes would benefit from a governor and tie rod refresh.
  8. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    I pulled the engine side cover tonight and studied the governor. I also have a 2005 governor on the way. I found another problem, the ball bearing ramp, pictured below, is worn and the bearings have dug themselves some detents. I am sure that the ball bearings have to overcome this resistance before the valve will move. I am willing to bet that the ramp comes stock without the detents and is smooth metal. The cone ramp also has a groove in it which adds to the resistance. This also lowers the linkage arm a bit. So, this gets worn over time and changes the valve timing. Combine this wear with the dual governor springs for years 2001 and 2002 and you get sh_itty low end response. I will pull the 05 governor apart and try to polish/grind the detents out reducing any initial resistance for the ball bearings. I still dont like the length of the linkage tie rod, I think it should be maybe 1/8 longer. It would be cool if it was adjustable. I know that the governor should have a bit of pre-load but there is no way to accurately measure it. I may experiment by riveting a bicycle chain master link on there to see what kind of difference it makes. Oh, and FYI, the damn needle bearings are loose in the race, don't pull the assembly apart without keeping pressure on the washers on both sides of the needle bearings or they will fall out and you will say very bad words, like I did.
  9. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    Thanks, appreciate the responses. I removed the KIPS linkage cover and the front KIPS valve cover to re-inspect for the 3rd time. FYI, there is no carbon or sludge build up to cause an issue since the re-build is so fresh. The linkage/valve timing marks are exactly as indicated in the service manual. The butterfly valve is in its "deployed" position when engine is off, it retracts properly with RPM increase. Here is something peculiar, I have to pull the linkage rod up with needle nose pliers to put it on the gear that moves the valve. It appears that when the valve is in the fully closed/deployed position with the engine off, and the rod in its resting state, I have a 1/4 inch gap between the end of the rod and the gear pin attachment point. When I pull up the rod and put it in the arm pin, it feels like the tension on the governor behind the engine side case may by half way through its range of motion. Then when I extend the rod and gear to its maximum position, it will not open the valve as far is it is capable of going. Should there be a 1/4 inch gap between the resting state of the gear pin and the linkage connecting rod? If so then I feel this may be my problem. My thought is that the ball bearings on the governor ramp of the cup are half way through their range of motion when everything is in its resting state. The engine rpm has to rise to a certain point before that valve will even move. It seems that the valve will move sooner if the linkage rod was a bit longer and therefore moving the governor closer to the beginning of its operational range, rather than starting from the mid-point of its range. Is this the right thinking here? Next, if the linkage connecting rod is in fact too short then perhaps the governor-to-rod connecting point is assembled wrong and lowers the linkage rod. I am not even sure if this is possible. Perhaps the PO flipped that part where it attaches to the rod with the 2 allen screws. I hate to take the case off just to check this. I researched the KIPS changes and found out that they changed the governor spacers and spring rates for 2001 and 2002. To my surprise, it appears that they changed the governor back in 2003 to match the 2000 governor specs. A part number comparison shows them as identical. Funnny thing, the 2001 and 2002 KX125s have a reputation for being sluggish and lame on the bottom. The 01 and 02 governors have a new design with 2 springs, making it much stiffer. The marketing brochures label this as a much better set up for increased mid range power. In 03 they put the 00 governor back in so I may do the same. I think I will grab a 2000 governor off of ebay and give it a shot. Since the 01 governor has 2 springs, maybe remove one of them? but then this leaves an unknown situation? I guess I am ultimately questioning why the linkage rod is so short and why it places the governor half way through its range of motion in a resting state. This also prevents the valve from retracting as far as it is able to. I will have to take the engine case apart to check the governor and the rod slider part. If it appears to be normal, I will have a 2000 governor on hand to replace the 2001. I bet that I will still be 1/4 inch short on the rod/gear pin connection. The real solution may be a slightly longer linkage arm. I may have to weld an extension on there. This is all that I can come up with at this point. I will recheck the ignition timing but I still dont like the governor pre-load scenario. Thoughts? Edit: 96-00 and 03-05 all have the same exhaust/power valve governor PNs. The linkage shaft and arm have same PN from 97 through 02, new design in 03-05. Edit again: wow, I just discovered that it looks like all they did for 01 and 02 is add the additional "inner" governor spring as the outer spring is the same part number, 39129, for all of the other years. It would appear that I can simply remove the inner spring. I am willing to bet that this will definitely influence my symptoms. Edit: the bearing cups are different for 1998 - 2000 however it looks like the functionality is the same, the kawi PNs are all the same so not sure wtf. This picture shows both the linkage tie rod and the valve gear in their resting states. The gap appears to be significant. I would like to decrease it by half to see how it influences the delivery. A certain amount of pre-load is ideal but as the bike and parts age, the timing and performance changes. Over time this gap increases as the arm, governor, valve, cylinder, etc., start to wear. The yamaha setup is very similar and those folks have a mod to add spacers to the governor which raises or lowers the tie rod connection, changing the valve timing.
  10. moshman

    35 or 38mm Keihin? TMX swap KX125

    Sorry to pull up such a dated thread but I have spent hours researching the off-idle bog that I am having with my 2001 KX125 and this thread seems to be the must informative. 0-1/8 throttle is sharp, 1/8 to 1/4 is very flat and weak, 1/4 to 1/2 is decent, 1/2 to top is ripping I have been jetting 2-strokes for 25 years I tried everything with the stock Mikuni. I am starting to think that something else is wrong. I bought this used 6 months ago and immediately sent the head off for a 132cc bore and nikosil job. The bottom end seems fresh and no air leaks through the crank seals. If I wick the throttle open it gives a dead bog, lean condition. If I slowly open the throttle it wont bog but it is still very flat and useless, cant even lift the front end. I have triple checked the reeds, I have messed with the timing, changed plugs, etc. I took the Lectron off of a KTM that I have and rigged it, it gives the same exact symptoms. I know that the KX125 lacks low end "power" but it should rev up quickly and lift the front end easiliy on flat terrain. Hill climbing in 2nd gear will suck, I get that but this thing is useless down low. Could it be the power valve? It seems that this thing lights up when the power valve comes on. Perhaps its timed wrong? Maybe I need to replace the spring etc behind the side case? I am at my witts end, I have a old screw top Keihin that I may throw on there but I am convinced that its not jetting related. Would weak spark only effect the bottom? Would a faulty KIPS cause this? Timing? This is going to be something unusual, not jetting. I am running out of ideas. Thanks in advance.
  11. All, I recently bought the 4x8 folding aluminum trailer from Northern Tool. It seems to be new as there are few reviews and the others are steel. I thought I would share my experiences so far. I have had 5x8 steel utility trailers and a 6x12 generic enclosed trailer and those were much better for general use however, I had to keep them at a storage facility since my HOA would not allow them in my neighborhood. Plus, over the years they end up going to pot by being kept outdoors. The enclosed trailer was broken into, and the steel trailer was perfect but too expensive to keep at a facility. So, the folding trailer will go into my garage, is light weight and I don't have to look at it in my yard or worry about it getting stolen. The kit is entirely bolt-together, the sides and deck are not included. The kit is quality in fit and finish with the exception being the wiring harness, it was garbage, easily nicked and broken, truly sh_t. I ended up using 4x8x1/8 thick diamond plate for the deck, this is perfect, plenty thick and literally just needed to cut it half with my circular saw. I used the existing frame bolts to bolt it down. I also used 2x4 alluminum square tubing riveted to plain 1/8x10" strips of aluminum sheet for the sides. I bought a 4x8 sheet and cut it into 10" x 8' strips. I bought corner brackets to tie them together and used a ramp kit and 2x10 to make a back gate. The cool part is that I used a 3" hole saw to make holes in the frame so I could insert a metal pole as an outrigger for my tie downs for 3 full sized bikes, works like a charm. I will look to have it welded in spots to make it stronger but it suites its purpose well. It is not a heavy duty trailer by any means, in fact it is quite flimsey, however pulling 3 bikes is easy. I would sya that a single harley or 4 wheeler would also max it out but its not gonna be used everyday and making sure it stays together is simple. I highly recommend this trailer for very specific needs, first and foremost, you want a folding trailer, do not buy this if you dont need it to fold. Second, 3 dirtbikes max it out. Lastly, it will take many modifications to get it right but the end result seems worth it.
  12. moshman

    mikuni/yamaha TMX needle

    Did you end up solving this jetting issue? I have a similar problem with my KX125 and TMX35/36 carb. The stock jetting is 360(good), 50(45 better), and 6BEF16-69. The pipe comes on at 1/2 throttle, really rips. The plug is light brown. The problem is terrible spooge and flat acceleration from 1/8 to 1/2 throttle. I believe that I have to lean out the straight diameter of the needle as the clip position has no effect on the diameter. The clip moves the whole needle up or down and leans or richens the whole range but the needle diameter is always the same. I may move the clip to the top of the needle to see what happens but I may still try to get a wider straight section.
  13. I bought a used 2001 KX125, the water pump seals were bad, water in trans oil. I also wanted to order the water pump gear but found out that it is no longer shipping (13234-1107). I carefully polished the existing shaft and replaced the seals and bearings. So-far-so-good. You can also change the depth of the seal so that the lips land on a different portion of the shaft. (did I really just type that?) The part number for the gear changed in 2003 (13234-1117), however the entire lower engine cover in the parts diagram looks identical. I will order a 2005 water pump gear and report back if it is identical to the 99-02.
  14. moshman

    01 kx125 top end advise

    Hi, I just bought this same bike for my son and have gone through the entire thing. I have been working on bikes for 30 years. Maybe some of this will help.... Get a engine compression tester from an auto parts store. Ride the bike and get it hot, pull the plug, insert the tester air hose and kick it over a hard as possible several times. This will give you a baseline on the current condition of the cylinder, rings, head gasket etc. Perform this same test after you install the new top end, use the compression reading to gauge when you need to replace it again. They say a 10% drop is the rule but I let it go a bit longer since we do not race very much. More of a play bike. You can perform a compression test whenever you want, as much as you want, this will tell you exactly how your top end is doing. Remember to do it when the bike is hot, right after a ride. The Kawi manual says anything between 129-199 psi is good. I think 150 is a good rule of thumb. Anything less and the power drops considerably. The 01 KX125 cylinder is not coated with Nikosil, which sucks really bad. I am sending mine to US chrome to have it done ($200). I would highly recommend this be done, they will also match it up perfectly to a new piston and ring. Drain radiator fluid at the water pump drain bolt, pull pipe, remove gas tank, remove head engine frame mounts, remove upper radiator hose, loosen head bolts very evenly and slowly so it wont warp. Pull the exhaust valve cover, pull off the clip holding the valve arm, note the notch and dot on the valve gears, they have to match up when you put them back together. You dont have to pull the valve apart if you dont want. Loosen the cylinder base bolts slowly. before you pull the cylinder, be aware that there are 2 very small dowel pins that pop out very easily, these are only used to properly align the cylinder and engine cases. Pull up the cylinder very carefully and use a flashlight to keep an eye on the dowel pins, if they stay with the engine cases they you are ok. If they come off with the cylinder then don't touch them!!! Very carefully pull the cylinder up far enough to carefully put a rag or paper towels into the engine under the piston, this will catch the dowel pins or anything else that might fall in there. Pull off the cylinder. Carefully pull out the dowel pins, and be sure you place them in the engine case rather than the cylinder when you put it back together and dont pull the rag until the last second. Use a sharp pic tool to pop out the piston clip holding the piston wrist pin in place. Again, make sure you don't drop it into the engine cases. The piston wrist pin should slide out, never use a force to remove it. Pull up and down very delicately on the connecting rod to feel for any up-and-down free-play. There should be zero. If there is any up-and-down freeplay, it will only get worse. This is a sign that your crank bearings are out of spec. You may not need a crank but the bearings themselves are worn. Side-to-side free play is ok. The piston has part numbers on top, maybe under the carbon. Look them up on the internet. If not, get a measuring caliper tool and measure the top and bottom diameters of the piston, the bottom should be slightly bigger than the top. The stock diameter is 54mm. Research many threads that describe what pistons and cylinders should and should not look like to determine what you should do next. If the piston looks brand new then maybe a set of rings is all you need but you must know what piston size and brand it is. Most likely the piston will have vertical lines all over it and the bottom (skirt) may show more wear. This means you should replace it. The cylinder walls should not have any scratches that you can feel with your finger nail. Research your options depending on the condition, sleeves are no longer considered favorable, having it coated with nikosil is a great option. The piston will have 2 tiny holes in the side and an arrow or dot on the top. Make sure these go on the exhaust side, the holes lubricate the vertical bridge at the exhaust port. Put the ring into the cylinder by itself and measure the gap with a feeler gauge. make sure it is within specs. Install the base gasket, locator pins, piston and ring on the rod with new bearing, wrist pin and clips. Cover them with oil. Have a helper hold the oil covered cylinder on top of the new piston while you squeeze the ring, make sure the ring opening (gap) is at the pin in the ring groove on the piston, otherwise it will not go into the cylinder. Use both hands to keep the ring tight and have your friend gently wiggle and lower the cylinder, it will go on very easily if you have it right, otherwise start over. Do not twist the cylinder once it slides on the piston, the ring may catch on a port and damage something. Remove the rag before the cylinder comes to rest. Put on the cylinder base bolts, snug them up by hand and very slowly and carefully hand crank the engine with the kickstarter. It should move up and down very easily. If it stops or hangs up before the piston reaches the top pf the cylinder then remove the cylinder and start all over. torque the base nuts per service manual. Install the new head gasket per spec. Install the head, tighten each nut, zig-zag and incrementally, carefully and slowly until you reach the proper torque. This prevents warpage and helps insure a good water seal. If you took the exhaust valve apart, make sure the pins on the valve land between the actuator spring arms and the square metal tabs. The previous owner of our bike put the spring arms on the pins versus in-between and the bike ran horrible. They also did not align the dot on the valve gear shaft and notch on the arm located behind the cover. This is all in the service manual. Put it all back together, hand crank it without the plug, look for water in the transmission oil via the glass window, it will show up as bubbles at first, noticably green etc. Your head gasket is bad if you see water. Also keep checking this for a few hours. Run the bike through the preferred break-in period, usually some fast idle cycles on the stand until the water gets too hot to touch, leave the radiator cap off. Let it cool off and then do it again. Ride carefully for 15 mins and then blast away. Take it easy on the long high speed passes and pull the plug to make sure its light brown. I use Motul 800 at 40:1, amazing stuff. The 125's need more oil since they are being flogged all the time. if you have a lot of spooge then dont forget the more oil means less gas which leans the mixture. You may richen the needle to see if it burns the oil better. Many folks use less oil which means more gas, which burns the oil off better, I would rather have more oil in the 125. My 250's get 50:1.
  15. moshman

    Shift Seal

    The counter shaft has a race that is pulled out which gives an opening to insert a seal puller tool, super easy. Just remember to not tap the new seal in all the way, some bikes do not have a ridge and the seal will go all the way in too far. The shifter seal is tight against the shifter shaft and can be a bich to get out. Sometimes it will pop out with a pick-type tool, other times you have to heat the area around it, tapp it with a small punch to break the bond and or drill a hole and insert a screw (last resort). If you drill a hole, it is very easy to let the drill bit slip into the shaft and scratch it at the exact place it needs to seal. Use a small punch to make an indent for the bit to sit in first. I have found that tapping the perimeter of the metal part of the seal will eventually break the bond with the engine case and then it will pop out with a hooked pick-like tool.