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Chicane

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About Chicane

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  1. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Pretty neat. I am looking at adding a MAP sensor. Mostly this was because I was very interested in how the air box and exhaust change will affect the output all else remaining equal. I find it quite funny how you have to use the TPS on low mass airflow and the MAP at high mass airflow.... Exactly like the carb using the pilot jet in front of the slide and the AP during low airflow and then going over to the main jet/needle on high mass airflow, yes I know the EFI would be more sophisticated but the similarity is entertaining. Now as I mentioned, I'm unlikely to go EFI. Do you reckon getting all this sensor inputs/data/logging would be worth my while on the carb? I suppose if nothing else is will change this trial and error approach to be a lot more exact and I can have peace of mind knowing what the bike is doing instead of doing comparative tests.... which will save me a lot of time. What I would need to look at is as you say which fuel ratio's work well with the bike. A dyno would have been nice.... do you think your fuel maps could be useful?
  2. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    @Ilia . Sound like the dealership may not have done that exhaust mod tastefully, my 2001 DRZ400s had a modified stock exhaust which was open and still very pleasant. I can tell you that the Staintune exhaust system designed for the DRZ400 has a 29mm opening with the insert and a 49mm without. I don't know what this talk is about small openings for the DRZ as I can most definitely feel a big difference on my bike even with the current tune especially in the low to mid RPM range running it without the insert.... much more grunt. Now of course I cannot prove this with some dyno graphs but I'm sure you can find some if you wanted to. I would imagine that if your bike is not tuned to run the open airbox / exhaust then of course is would just be extra noise..... This is the noise level tests for the exhaust system on the DRZ with the Staintune exhaust. Noise Emissions: Restrictors In: 94dba @ 3200rpm Restrictors Out: 99dba @ 3200rpm That being said, even though there is definitely better performance with the open pipe it does make a racket and has a harsher sound, running it with the insert is generally a lot more pleasant for those around me and also for my ears going at highway speeds, so I run the insert. The Staintune with the insert is still a lot more open than the standard exhaust. If you have problems with you ears maybe you should wear some protection to begin with...inconvenient as that may be.
  3. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    We can agree it's not the speed in itself that matters, it's about the load. Different speed/gear = different load. Load can be introduced by gearing / hill / headwind / just plain old wind resistance etc. So higher gear / higher speed creates greater load by virtue of resistance.... I think what is really important is that your tests are relevant, hence the normal riding tests. Do we for example know the exact "load" I would experience cruising at 110km/h in 5th at 6000rpm.... and what is my throttle position? No we don't. So if we don't know the load under those conditions then how can we tune for it to be nice and lean for economy? The only way is to ride it like that, get the A/F ration, get the throttle position ( to determine the circuits to focus on ) It's probably worth testing edge cases as well... high load / light load. But keep it sane. If you are going up a crazy hill you are not going to slug it up keeping it in 5th.... you are going to gear down.... so no point tuning for that and maybe compromising somewhere else. The throttle is just a controller. The position only matters in a much as it determines the amount of air flow and indirectly the fuel metered. What really matters is what the engine needs for the application, throttle position in and of itself is immaterial. This is what the wide band is supposed to tell you..... what the engine needs. I then need to identify the best circuits to adjust to give my engine what it needs for the loads that is relevant..... yes the position should give you a ballpark of what to look at. There is so much overlap between the different circuits however that the position is not an absolute of what to tune.... we won't get into that right now... Ps. I do appreciate the conversation and I keep in mind the tuning methods used like mentioned.... 1/8 increments(light/full), hill, repeat etc.... robust conversation is a great learning tool if people aren't insecure and don't associate their worth with their opinion.... which is a trait too rare...
  4. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Do my eyes deceive me.... or are you running the bike without a filter??!! Start there.....
  5. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Well maybe you have learned something I have yet to learn which I cannot see at the moment. lol. I think we can both agree that logging is better than looking at gauges. But If I'm going to spend the money I want to see my throttle position when looking at the logs. The difference is that you are trying to test let's say 1/2 throttle... you would need markings for that. I however at this stage do not don't see the point in that type of test. I don't ride my bike like that so it's not a relevant test. I will be testing what happens when I'm cruising on the 60 / 80 / 110km/h ( speed limit here ) what happens when I'm overtaking a car from 100km/h and rolling on the throttle or what happens when I go around a roundabout and gear down to say 4th and is rolling on coming out of the turn etc. or when I'm just messing in the bush or absolutely flogging WOT on some dirt.... When I'm accelerating I don't accelerate at 1/2 thottle.... normally you were cruising at say 1/4 or 1/3 and then roll on through 1/2 to 3/4 or full throttle. You also don't yank it from closed to WOT .... So I'm not trying to do superficial tests or tests to isolate a particular tuning circuit, I firstly trying to accurately log how I'm riding and what the bike is doing and tuning for that. As you said, it's a very dynamic exercise and every RPM / Load / Throttle position / Speed / Gearing all would require different tunes to be optimal.... I throw in gearing because that will effect load and load will effect the airflow and how quickly you transition through RPM range or not..... If I can get the MAP sensor to work that would make for some interesting data and possibly shine some light on this hole size debate...
  6. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    The throttle stop should not be removed.... it should only be cut down to allow for WOT. Like so.....totally different carb but shows the slide going up so you know what to look for. Stolen from a really informative page http://www.49ccscoot.com/faq/carbtune.html So you don't need to remove the carb IF you can somehow see that the slide clears without removing it...which would be challenging. The best I can do for you is measure how long my throttle stop and you can compare, however...the throttle wheel is under the black plastic cover on the right side of the carb. You will have to take this off to check. You can follow your throttle cables to the throttle wheel... I guess I'll just take a photo for you. What you photographed there is the Accelerator pump ( AP ). To check the other restriction you would have to take off this bit. Really, your life would be better if you just take the carb off, verify all these things I already mentioned, note down the jets you have etc and also check the Accelerator Pump timing... there are threads on that. Here is a little video explaining some of it and you can see it in action, there could be better ones around. https://www.howtomotorcyclerepair.com/fcraptiming/ This one is on the FCR MX.... you have the Slant..... the principle is the same but you don't have the timing screw, the FCR Slant have a timing fork that needs to be bent close or widened.
  7. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Yes the jetting will be one big compromise but you can skew it towards your particular type of riding. At least with this kind of data you can make that decision. I thought the point of getting the TPS input would be to correlate that with the RPM/AFR to understand that 50% throttle at x RPM give me this AFR. It should totally negate the need for marking the throttle. What problem did you experience with this? I don't want to run into the same issue after spending this amount of cash. Then I might as well stay with just using the AFR gauge and not bother with the logging.
  8. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Thanks heaps. Of course to interpret this accurately you need to know the throttle position as well and any mods to the AP. Do you have any graphs that include the TPS input? I was thinking that maybe going with the Innovative product line might be good because of their modular design. I can get the MTX-OL gauge/sensor first ($291) and then later add either just the data logger ( $99 ) or the logger and SSI-4 ( $135 ) which will give me TPS and RPM, it can also accept input from their MAP sensor ( $65 ) This will run me up to $590 ( A$820 )... mmm will be damn interesting though and will definitely save me lots of time to get this bike running sweet, and any other vehicles I may want to do down the track... The MAP sensor require a vacuum signal from the intake manifold AFTER the throttle body... I wonder if the port on the head that is used for the CE would work or if the CE operation would interfere? opinion?
  9. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Instead of checking the plug, check that your throttle stop is allowing the slide to clear the carb and that your cables allow you to hit the throttle stop. Also check that the rubber piece that joins the carb to the engine is free of any restrictions. Most of your riding is low altitude so the standard jetting should be good - not that anywhere in Australia is high really. Maybe change the needle setting during the hotter time of the year and if you are heading into Blue Mountains. I haven't finished the jetting on my bike yet to really say if it is worth changing the needle for different conditions, in theory it is, but I suspect the effect to be marginal because we are not dealing with extreme conditions. Before worrying about those things, check what we discussed already the throttle stop/adjust cables to allow WOT ( check that slide clears bore under WOT ) remove restriction between carb and engine. There is a little flap there that needs to be cut out. Note what your current setup is main jet starter jet pilot jet main air jet pilot air jet type of needle and clip position while you are at it make sure the AP timing is correct ( don't go off and do the Eddie mod or any other mod at this stage on the AP just the timing for which there is a component called the "timing fork" which will adjust this) Then you know where you are... and can plan where you want to go. I'm in Canberra. Did a great little trip in Kanangra-Boyd national park the other day, really want to get everything on my bike tip top and do lots more short "adventure" trips like that.
  10. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Nice William, Do you have any graphs which shows acceleration and maybe acceleration under half throttle and full throttle etc? Ideal tuning would be that the bike makes power under typical throttle openings for acceleration and WOT but is fuel efficient when cruising right? I might look into adding a MAF sensor if I'm going this route instead of just a gauge, since I'm super curious about the air flow behavior...
  11. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    The items I know of that should be done is the snorkel the exhaust the throttle stop/adjust cables to allow WOT remove restriction between carb and engine. There is a little flap there that needs to be cut out. On my bike the throttle stop/cables were not done correctly. Only discovered it when I had the carb off and saw the slide wasn't clearing the bore on WOT. After all that they should adjust the needle and fuel screw for your bike and altitude that you ride in. AFAIK the standard main jet is 165 which should be good with those modifications because it won't run too lean with a sensible needle setting and is what my bike has been running for the last 25K km. The pilot is a 45 which is what most use and also what I run. Well, if your jetting is not quite right AND then you go and plug up the exhaust.... testing the snorkel on top of that is not quite the way to go. If we assume for the moment your "feel" of the bike is accurate and there is no difference then all you are testing is that with a plugged up exhaust and with the jetting as it is ... the bike runs no better or worse. The exhaust, jetting and air box all work together to give you that little extra performance. What area in NSW do you ride?
  12. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Did you also log the TPS and RPM input? Ever considered adding a MAP sensor?
  13. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Had a good read, seems pretty slick! Since I already have an E model and FCR carb which is used for adventure touring I'm unlikely to go the FI route at the moment. There are other components I'd rather spend the cash on.
  14. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Well I seem to be heading that way lol. I really just wanted to jet my bike to run well and then came across conflicting results in my tests as well as the bike not running as well as I'd like. As long as I have fun along the way I suppose it's all good. I think I'll be installing a wideband oxygen sensor to get to the bottom of this.... any kit you'd recommend? Currently I'll just be going with the AEM 30-0300 X-Series... seems to be the cheapest reliable one around, will still be A$260 for me. @ohiodrz400sm feel free to chime in on you wideband o2 sensor experience please.....
  15. Chicane

    i question the 3x3 cutout

    Don't think there are many FI DRZ's running around the place. It's actually quite amazing what a carburetor does when you get into the details of what it needs to do to fuel the bike correctly. It's like a mechanical computer of sorts. Never really appreciated that until I started to try and jet my bike.
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