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Everything posted by Procon

  1. We have a new (off the showroom floor) 2006 Yamaha YZ250 (2-cycle) that needs some simple tuning to the suspension for Hare Scrambles. Now I know that there is no simple solution to suspension tuning, I am looking for a simple chart or reference to get the stock shim settings and what would generally be needed for decreased high speed damping and a bit less low speed damping for Hare Scrambles. My son ran (2-years ago) C-class and took second in district. Last year he ran B-class and took first. He is now running A-class and generally takes first in class and 3 or 4 overall. He is pretty fast and is experiencing too stiff of a suspension when racing where his 2002 Honda CR250R (that has been revalved by Pro-Action) is almost picture perfect for him. I am trying to explain his general race speeds here folks, not bragging, as we know there is always someone else out there faster on any given day. I can say that the Pro-Action revalve required us to revalve twice (each time softer) for both high and low speed until we felt quit comfortable. Where we really need a more plush suspension is in the woods portion when especially in corners navigating roots and square edges (high speed damping too much). We need to lessen the high speed damping and we can do the work ourselves. I am a bit mistified as to why Yamaha would not at least offer spring rates, riding conditions, rider ability, and shim valving specs for general application. We can work with suspension tuners, but racing on the weekend does not afford us much tunaround time before the next race when the tuners are generally 75 miles or more away from our household. Any web references you can think that would help? Help! Signed Shimmey.
  2. Procon

    Difference between subtanks?

    Just a quick note. Pro-Action also has subtanks. Our support person says he can offer them, but strongly encouraged us to first work with the piston and valving. The reason? Add another component to the mix and a wipeout, tree branch snag, tree trunk impact renders the items useless and makes an oily mess. Better to have the suspension working optimal with piston, valving, and springs first. Less weight and doesn't pull the center of gravity upward either. Then is you really want the subtanks, get them afterwards. Just my 2 cents that always seems to cost me 2 dollars of experience. Have a great day.
  3. My son is 6'-2" 180 lbs with all his riding gear (including water pack). The square edged stuff is a big issue for him. He experiences deflecting (bars get pushed back up and wheel leaves ground in square edged corners and obsticles). I have experienced the same thing and the deflection makes our wrists hurt (stinger)... something that could lead to future wrist issues\inflamation\cronic pain\etc... The deflection is quite scaring coming into a corner at speed ans all of the sudden the front end is off the ground and the front plows straight. We had the same issue prio to getting out 2002 Honda Cr250R suspension revalved by Pro-Action. There is no issue with worn parts, sticktion, missalignment with the suspension and all components are torqued to specification.
  4. I thought that I'd try the posting area specific to the Yamaha YZ 2 stroke area. This bike had changed its suspension from a KYB position sensitive to a KYB speed sensitive configuration from 2006 to present. My concern was I'd get general or generic responses that did not take into consideration the newer speed sensitive system. I will let the post bake hear a couple of more days and if nothing happens, I'll try the general suspension area. Thanks for your input.
  5. Look at this very post, There are several replies I posted. I think Page 2 gives you a little more perspective from our side (experience). Basically, we went with GPR. I think this is purely a personal choice (as to what brand and model) as most people who get a stabilizer seem to result in them saying they prefer it installed rather than not. I and my son have been successful in making 'on the fly' adjustments very well with the GPR (with its large single knob). If you feel confident and well versed with the concept of slow and fast speed damping, the Scotts may be the better choice for your needs. I'd suggest first maximizing your suspension and getting the most out of your riding technique. Some guys feel that the stabilizers help with headshake (we are strong believers especially with the bike we have), but the actual issue originates with an improperly adjusted suspension. Make sure the infamous steering stem bearing is torqued within operation specifications. KTM (I believe) has GPR OEM their stabilizers (although may be specifically valved for KTMs). When I called GPR, one of the engineers I talked to said that each stabilizer is damped specific to its intended use (street, dirt, ATV etc...) I tried to order from Parts Unlimited, but was told they no longer have the off road kits. I was later told that the dealer can special order a kit if they know what they need. I ended up calling GPR and talking to an engineer and felt the discussion was worth paying their listed prie and they shipped the same day. you may be able to find discounting from several dealers or online sources (most online sources said they would have to order and I didn't want to wait 5-10 business days). All said and done, the steering dampers are very subjective and each person will have their own opinion of each. I would be inclined to say that whatever one you get, you may be surprised at how well they all perform in their basic function.
  6. I Have no fancy explaination of it other than he tried his first and only Hare Scramble in 2006 (really liked it) and decided to race a full series the next year (2007) to see how good he could do and how much he could better himself. In his first C class race in 2006, he took third. We pretty much looked like the local red necks by running a bike way too tall in gearing, 4 year old tires, ATF fluid in leaking front forks and seldom fully functioning front brakes due to the oil all over the caliper mechanism. And the suspension was absolutely horrible. We are talking the same thing, right? Hare Scrambles? That is what I am talking about. In 2007 he took second in C class points (he was 16 years old). He and another racer went back and fourth in most races and my son took second last year and was not able to race two races due to a broken arm. The district referee (at the 2007 racers banquet) said that there were three really good riders in C class and said they were being graduated to B class in the 2008 season. My son was one of the three riders. There was a fair bit of complaining (during the 2007 race season) by some of the other riders as they felt these three riders were too qualified to race C class. Being new to all this and wanting to run a full series (yet concerned we somehow weren't running the proper class), the district referee said we were simply doing extremely well for beginners. At the beginning of this race season (2008), one of the three graduated racers elected to go to A class (didn't do well) and simply did not seem to compare to my sons race results. The other rider rode B class and too resulted in poorer results than expected. My son often caught (B class starts 2 minutes behind A class) and lapped one of last years graduated races that went to A class. My sons race results are on RPAOffroad.com Search for Brian Messerschmidt and the results can be reviewed at your leasure. Rick Anschutz (the District Race Hare Scramble Referee) does think fovorably enough of my son that he strongly engourage him to run AA in the 2009 race season. Prodigy? Doubtful. But the riding snowmobiles in Wisconsin (off season motorcyle) didn't hurt him by any means. He rides a snomobile just like a dirt bike... simply keeping a higher average speed than the other riders. A common theme is to keep corner speed up. Bad or poor district races? I have nothing to compare, but other riders in AA have sought him out and opened dialogue that they think he is a really good rider and also encouraged him to run AA next year. He just looks real good riding a bike and doesn't expend a buch of energy riding it. He rides the bike, but doesn't 'drive' it. He has run against other District riders and OMA guys and does well there too. Am I a BSer? Quite often a joker, but can always back a statement up when I do say I am talking seriously. He raced his first Hare Scramble National this fall and took first in his class (250B) and placed 7th. overall. After the National (it was his first 3 hour race), he came to me saying he can surely run faster on the 2 hour courses for next year. He has phenominal endurance. I have seen racers being very fatigued at one hour and my son takes his helmet off after the two hours but a little sweat on his side burns. Did I mention (I know I didn't), but two of his races this year, he ran with absolutely no rear brake (brake master cylinder failures). With these types of adversities, He and I debrief after each race. We extract the components we can better ourselves and beging preparing for the next race. I can say with certainty that having no rear brake has made him a better racer from those two events.... he really understands front brake modulation, corner entry\compression, and has gotten over the simply fear of coming into a corning too fast and believes in the bike, Himself, suspension, and tires. All said and done, I think that his willingness to take constructive criticism from me is an an exceptional characteristic. This is almost unheard of between a 17 year old and his father. In the last few races of this season, he also bloomed as a more agressive (yet highly tactical) racer. Racer agressiveness was probably the hardest thing I had was to keep my cool. I could see him racing, but not at his potential had he been more keyed on the race. Developing him without me getting too hard and pressing to go faster always took a bunch of restraint. Had it been Myself and My Father, I would have given up racing as my Father thinks the only way to race is to go not fast, but faster.... never taking into account that there is 120 minutes to displace ones energy reserves. Racing is also exploiting oneselves strengths and the other racers weaknesses (something he learned in his last four races). He did recently run a Yamaha YZ250F and I can say with confidence he looked even smoother and considerably faster than on his 2002 Honda CR250R. We can't believe how well the Yamaha suspensions work! He also rode a 2008 Yamaha YZ250 and if we could place him on one of them, I think we could leveage even more. Thinking we'd ever get to a professional racing level? Highly unlikely (although an old Pro racer said to me that my son has the most natual talent he has ever seen in the 35+ years that he raced). We are hopeful to be the local fast guy that others to aspire to beat. We share everything we have learned with those wanting that type of information. It is no fun racing if you do not have stiff competition. If you are at all interested in how methodic we are, PM me and I can send you an Excel spreadsheet of our race analysis to get a better idea of how we think. To get a good idea of how we ride, that is another thing. On each race, I did video archiving (digital camera). We spent a considerable amount of time analyzing them too. One other thing I can say with confidence is: There is always someone faster that ones self. But, being able to hang with the guy who just passed you for a bit is exciting. What is even more exciting is to have the same racer pass you a few races later and you can hang with them. The ultimate... catch that racer that is really good and eventually pass them and hold your position or open a gap! That is what turns my sons crank.
  7. My son raced B class this year and will run A class for the 2009 season.
  8. We have been very methodic in our racing bike and equipment changes throughout the season and we feel that the stabilizer has offered three benefits: 1) No more head shake.... real scarey when pinned in 5th. gear. 2) Less fatigue to top of body. Can relax the grip due to no fear of head shake. The rough stuff can be cut through quicker, thus shaving a bit of lap time. 3) Suspension was forced to take more of the high speed ruts, roots, rocks, and edges and less shock felt through frame. The 02 Honda is a very stiff frame and has no mercy on softening a high speed spike. I feel confident that this was a great improvement for us (your mileage may vary) as I am sure the other racers improved along with him. Our other race reference has been the District champion AA racer and we have been monitoring my sons speed difference and his on each race. We are very fortunate that our Hare Scrambles have two barcode scanners at the lap tent. Once the race is completed, the results are posted online and the results are a hoot to look at and analyze. As for the my opion that the stabilizer was a key component in our overall speed increase strategy, here are the differences between my son and the fastest guy on the track (percent difference per race on overall speed). 8% 10% 8% 10% 10% 12% 11% 19% 4% 4% 5% 6% We installed the steering stabilizer on the 4th. to last race and effectively decreased the speed difference by a whole 50%. In Hare Scrambles, as much as a .01mph difference (over a two hour race) will place you behind the other racer. Go to RPAOffroad.com to see the benefits of the tent lap scanner. I think it is awsome. This is my sons second year of racing and we are hopeful we can overtake the champion on the 2010 season. Some of his success is attributed to equipment, his keen desire to improve (and actually impliment some of his Dad's recommendations), and desire to catch and pass the guys in the class above him. Attitude is a big one and the removal of a sore ars (suspension work) and removal of headshake (GPR stabilizer) made for the perfect combination for a successful season. If I had no money constraints, I'd put him on a 2009 Yamaha YZ250 (2-cycle) perch, add a flywheel, do little or no suspension work, maybe gear down a bit, an IMS tank, a GPR stabilizer, handguards, run him on Michelin S12 tires, and tell him to persue the A class championship. Just my 2 cents that seems to always cost me $1.25. :-)
  9. We added a GPR to our 2002 Honda CR250R about two months ago. My son runs Hare Scrambles and I waited until I thought he had ALL the riding techniques well learned and practiced before such an accessory was installed. It improved his overall speed by an approximated 1/2 mile per hour. This may sound small, but when one of his prior races (without the stabilizer), he lost by .02mph over a two hour hare scramble race period, it was a bummer. He says that he can agress rough terrain with much more confidence (the Honda 02 CR250R is well know for headshake) and no concern for a bar slapper now! I have ridden the bike several times since the installation (took about 1.5 hours) and ran it on trails that are known to cause this bike fits.... she ran through extremely well with the stabilizer and I was able to turn up the damping on the fly quite easily in a section that would have put me on the ground (had I not had the stabilizer). As for the arguments of damping back to center steering position, I can attest that the trails we ride WILL deflect your front wheel BOTH directions and that is why I selected the GPR. As for low and high speed damping, I do not know what the Scotts does in comparison to the GPR, but I WANT the system to dampen more if there is a serious deflection and cause the suspension to absorb the excess energy (hence there actually is increased damping affect with bar rotational speed). Sometimes keeping it simple works best for us in a race environment. And how many riders fully understand damping and the forces associated with the different velocities. My son had run this bike last year and experienced serious headshake at several events and he and I have NOT experienced a single instance since the GPR installation. The stabilizer helped him secure his class championship for AMA District 16 (where he consistently beat the A riders and serveral AAs) and won his first national race. Throughout the year, we had added other accessories that helped us stay in championship contention (flywheel, larger gas tank, steering stabilizer, tires, gearing, suspension, port timing). Of all the modifications, the two best were the suspension and the stabilizer. With the Hare Scramble guys, most will say installing a stabilizer too early (before you learn all the proper riding techniques) can hinder your progression to being a faster rider... the stabillizer can make a mediocre rider lazy and the never progress further. Just my 2 cents that always seems to cost me $1.25 in experience. :-)
  10. I am having trouble finding a listing from a vendor for a replacement seat cover for my 1997 Suzuki DR650SE. I can see all kinds of other sized DR seat covers, but the 650 listings elude me. My foam is okay, but the seat cover has begun to crack and would like to replace with a 'sticky' cover or something to hold my rear with less sliding. Any ideas or web links would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
  11. Procon

    Top Speed

    About 94 in regular sitting position and about 100 in tight and tucked. My bike is a 97 DR650SE. This was when I had the 15-tooth counter shaft sprocket. I now run with the 14-tooth and run mainly on the trails.
  12. Procon

    Adventure tires?

    I have the Kenda Trakmaster II on both the front and rear. The tires are DOT certified and are specified as 80% dirt and 20% street. They do howl some on the road, but wear well. Any knobby will wallor a little when going into a curve or corner hard. I run about 95% dirt and they work well for me. Not quite the traction as my Yamaha YZ490 or Hona CR250R, but for fast trail riding and a suspension upgrade from Jesse at Kientech, I can hold my own. The suspension upgrade made a big difference for me as I was ALWAYS bottoming the unit out. Since the upgrades (.50Kg/mm front fork springs) and (4.7Kg/mm rear shock spring with adapter), I find it is much more plush than the Honda (made more for large jumps and highly agressive compression environments). The suspension stiffening made a big difference on how the whole bike felt on the road and trails.
  13. Procon

    06 DR650 handlng ??

    I have Kenda Trackmasters and Kientech.com helped me with a replacement rear shock spring and front fork springs. This alleviated the diving issue I had and the bottoming almost disappeard (except for larger jumps). The rear would wobble in fast sweeping whoops also. I run 10-40 motor oil in the front forks. The bike runs smoother (on the trails we ride) than the 2002 Honda CR250R my 15 year old rides. The Honda suspension is much stiffer for the more aggressive jumps. After about 40 miles of trail riding he wants to switch and ride the DR650 for a little while. As for spelling and the grammar thing, my son and father-in-law are terrible at it (I'm not too good myself). Talk to them in person and they are exceptional communicators. The both of them can easily outwrench 90% of all the backyard mechanics I have ever come across. My son started posting messages on the internet (or is it spelled\spelt) Internet starting three years ago and almost stopped as he got flamed for his grammar. Some of us have strengths and I can bet we all have weaknesses. If we had a wrenching contest, I bet some of the worst spellers would be the better wrenchers. Some people are visual, aural, kinesthetic, literal, mechanical, and others are intellectual. Thank goodness we are not all like myself!!! We'd be in big trouble... just ask the wife. Please don't flame me. Spend your time and energy trying to pass me on the trail! Then we'll see who can stand to receive some spot corrections. Chances are I'll never soo you until I decide to stop.
  14. Procon

    Valve tick

    It may have been where the valves were too closely set prior to the maintenence. Depending on the motor design and components, some valve clearence become too tight over time. The valve seat and valve face do wear some. I have seen some valve start to look inverted (curled up on the edges). Since you made the adjustment and then noticed the ticking, I would venture the notion that your valves were actually tight. I also experienced the same situation on my Kawasaki concours street bike. It is better to hear a little valve ticking than none. A valve and the guide can be 'burned' if the clearances are too tight and the engine has never been serviced.
  15. Procon

    fuel mileage on a dr650?

    Ride mine only on the trails and local MX tracks. No idea on the MX track what the mileage is, but in stock configuration (other than Kenda Trackmasters on front and rear and a 14 tooth countershaft) on the trails, she gets 25mpg. Love the Kendas, they bite well. Both my 1984 Yamaha YZ490 and 2002 Honda CR250R get about 20. The trails we wide are quite curvey and we are either on the gas or the brakes (no such thing as cruising or coasting). Average trails speed are 35-45mph (were clipping along). Of all the bikes we run, the CR has the hardest time as it is in 5th gear an we find it wound tight (will have to gear higher). I have used a GPS for noting mileage, Not the speedometer to minimoze any errors due to wheel size, wear slipping, and sliding.